Why Ethanol?
Harley Emission & EPA LawsDiscuss Why Ethanol? in the Harley Tech & Harley How-to forums; While ethanol does cost more to produce, due to government subsidies to farmers and to ethanol plants to produce it, it cost less at the pump.
Without getting political this ...
While ethanol does cost more to produce, due to government subsidies to farmers and to ethanol plants to produce it, it cost less at the pump.
Without getting political this is an important step toward our independence from foreign oil.
When we will see the benefits is when we can grow ten ears of corn on a stock instead of two or three, and when we can grow sugar beets on the roots of cactus in the desert.
We have all the resources here on our own soil to be independant from foreign oil, it's just that the Liberals politically block the drilling for our own oil in ANWAR and off our coasts and anywhere else it's already been found.. Yes,, alternative energy like Ethanol etc. are good to have for the folks that want options ( having options is VERY American) but it should not be forced on the rest of us that want OIL energy..!
And they're doing the best they can to slow or Halt the construction of new Nuclear power plants that will take away alot of the need for Natural gas and oil-fired power plants and of course really dirty Coal-fired plants..
Why you might ask---- my theory is Dems/libs want to make and keep us poor and dependant on Big Government,, it's easier to control us then..
Unfortunately even when we try to keep politics out of a conversation it's impossible because it's the Liberal Polititians that impose all these horrid Un-American restrictions upon us..
Thanks for the debate..
__________________ "Fill your hands you son of a bitch"
Rooster Cogburn
We have all the resources here on our own soil to be independant from foreign oil, it's just that the Liberals politically block the drilling for our own oil in ANWAR and off our coasts and anywhere else it's already been found.. Yes,, alternative energy like Ethanol etc. are good to have for the folks that want options ( having options is VERY American) but it should not be forced on the rest of us that want OIL energy..!
And they're doing the best they can to slow or Halt the construction of new Nuclear power plants that will take away alot of the need for Natural gas and oil-fired power plants and of course really dirty Coal-fired plants..
Why you might ask---- my theory is Dems/libs want to make and keep us poor and dependant on Big Government,, it's easier to control us then..
Unfortunately even when we try to keep politics out of a conversation it's impossible because it's the Liberal Polititians that impose all these horrid Un-American restrictions upon us..
Thanks for the debate..
Frisco I am pulling numbers out of my head so if you have more accurate figures please let me know.
I believe we now furnish 15 to 20 percent of our oil needs. The Anwar field would furnish another 5 or 10. I have not heard any information about the Florida bay, not sure if they have even drilled to check.
So even if Anwar was at full capacity we would only be able to produce 35 percent of our oil.
Problem is these supplies are very limited, and getting harder and more expensive to drill. These are short term, fixes to our energy needs.
Even the oil field in the middle east, have reached there peak and starting to decline. With the modernization of China, and the far east, and their demand for oil the market has been taxed to the point that even the Arabs know their oil supply is limited.
While nuclear power has been very reliable it has as many problems as depending on foreign oil.
Ethanol is only a small part of the solution. We are just scratching the surface of renewable energy, free from foreign oil.
There are some truly remarkable things coming in the near future, we live in a wonderful and interesting time.
I would love to go back to the days of 23 cent gas and ten MPG road hogs, but afraid we are stuck to solve this problem so that we don’t pass it on to our grandkids.
I am a registered Libertarian so I could not vote for Ron Paul like I wanted to, so we are not that politically different.
And yes that is how we expand our knowledge by a good debate/conversation.
Cruiser
I am thinking a Nuclear Motorcycle. How freakin cool would that be? We can dump the cooling rods in tanks of Ethenol to the bring the heat down before we bury them in Hillary's back yard. When her yard fills up we can dump em in Obahma sahma whatever his name's yard.
My chainsaw is a bitch to start so I will purchase a beaver.
I am sick of mowing the grass so I get a Goat. Genetic engineering could give me a Beaver with Bigger teeth and more fur. A two headed Goat could eat my grass in a more uniformed pattern
They crap out I have Meat and a new hat.
Farmers can continue to sell their acres for Big Bucks for Welfare Housing developments. We all win and I have a Nuclear Bike.
Anwar would only contribute 6% - 10%, and take 20 years before we saw any of it. Plus, that oil is already promised to other interests, like Japan.
There's a newly estimated 21 billion barrels of crude in the contiguous 48, mostly in the northwestern-central plains and mountain states that can be gotten a bit easier without having to rape the landscape an bother the wildlife. Big Oil can find a way to make it less messy in a hurry if they're promised they can drill. It's like that skit from MadTV where the cure for AIDS and cancer are found in a matter of weeks when the leaders of the world are abducted and given the HIV virus and cancer. If they smell enough money, they'll find a way to make bald eagles nest on the rigs if need be.
There is some good news FINALLY. The network news guys have finally figured out what informed people have known since this ethanol debacle started: That ethanol sucks. Not just because of the bad mileage and power, but because it's the primary cause of the price increases and shortages of food staples like rice and wheat.
Give the networks time and you start hearing what the informed have been saying all long about the bad mileage, high costs to make it, that using corn sucks because you can only use 10% of the plant and not 60%+ like sugarcane and sugar beets, etc., etc...
Now if someone would get it through there head that recycling paper is bad for the planet...
Last edited by Majicbringer; 04-29-2008 at 12:18 AM.
Reason: Don't swallow mouthwash then go posting
OK, I can only repeat what I've read over time cuz Chevron stopped consulting with me when they found out I know JC, obviously guilt by association..
The figures given were 30 years of oil at Present Usage rates in Anwar by the Pros..
The Cons said 5-10 years at present usage.. Now, they have twisted the figures many times but I say even 5 years of oil at present usage is worth drilling..
Majic,, why do you assume the area will be trashed.? Heck they said the same thing about the Alaskan Pipeline and of course None of the bad things predicted occured..
HDCruser--
I do believe that as the rest of the world demands Oil-Energy our probs increase, yes, I agree with you.. BUT, in my mind, that makes my point.. We must get all the Oil-Energy we own and Nuke Power working for us to stay at our present level of Quality of Life until those new exciting forms of High-Energy are perfected.. Why should we drop down to their level voluntarily or be dragged down against our will.. Instead,, it is their job to bring themselves up to our level..
I submit the floor..
__________________ "Fill your hands you son of a bitch"
Rooster Cogburn
Frisco, Thank you for speaking up, Ive been working the oil/gas/mining industries for ten years now, and so many people are sooo mis informed, and not enough people are talking about the facts and figures.
Keep it up cat, its what makes America stronger.
__________________ "HELL IS EMPTY, ALL THE DEVILS ARE HERE."
sure we could produce all our oil needs domestically or at least within driving distance - north dakota bakken - oil shale - tar sands etc. there is no longer any genuine technical or reserve problem.
the actual real problem is cost of production. at 80+$ per barrel tar sands pay - just look at canada they are digging like mad - they just about have a new pipeline from canada down to the mpls/st paul from the tar sands - but that oil wont flow below 80$ a barrel.
oil shale looks to be 100+$ per barrel oil. there is a nearly unlimited supply of that stuff. between tar sands and shale - more than the saudis started with.
i wonder if the countrys we get oil from who hate us want corn more than we want oil? if we use enough corn for fuel we might find out.
the best argument for solar, wind, bakken, shale, tar sands, & nuclear sources of energy is so that we can stop paying folks who hate us for oil & keep that cash in the us.
however if we commit to bakken and tar sand and shale - we will have to be willing to pay for it - even if that production causes the world price to decline. ie we might have to pay 100$ for shale oil - and tell the saudis, Venezuela, iran etc to keep there 30$ oil.
if we cant commit to purchasing expensive domestic oil while turning down cheap overseas oil - then its all just emtpy pointless ignorant talk.
Tar sand oil is also piss poor oil, so it uses an ungodly amount of resources to make just one gallon of gas. It uses dozens of gallons of water to make one gallon of gas, and that alone sucks, but the run-off and waste water are extremely toxic and being held in open holding ponds, the size of small lakes.
And they use Gas to refine the ethnaol, so it aint realy green.
Saab drove a car around Australia on 100 % Ethnanol but if you read the fiune print in the atricle it also used 32% more fuel than the second standard vehicle.
And if it spills it covers double the distance.
For the US of A to make enough of it not to need oil ther report said it would require farms to cover 97% of the US of A so where would you grow your food or live.
Ethanol is not the answer, But we need to find something.
And with out oil the US Military would have no where to go.
Cant see them going to assualt the islands of shetlant to take the wind generators.
And before you asll get the ****s I was in GW1
__________________ Amsoil Oil Australia www.builtbythugz.com
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