Why Ethanol? Harley Emission & EPA Laws Discuss Why Ethanol? in the Harley Tech & Harley How-to forums; Donny Petersen talks about ethanol being used as octane in gasoline in the current issue of AIM. That may be one benefit but I don't know if it was originally ...

[Fenderplayer]

Donny Petersen talks about ethanol being used as octane in gasoline in the current issue of AIM. That may be one benefit but I don't know if it was originally introduced or intended as such.

[frisco-rigid]

Hey

Yes Shed, ethanol takes more fuel to refine then gives you less efficiency..

Fender, ethanol has been used as an octane booster because it slows the cumbustion process..

However when using an octane boost like Ethanol, that has less BTU's than todays gas, you actually dilute the energy/power of your gasoline.. Kinda like adding water to good Whiskey..

[Wrightturn]

Hey Frisco,

When do you think they will change the octane stickers on the pumps so people will see the higher number and think they are getting something better ? Will they just leave the old ones so the ethanol increase goes without notice ? Since everything we get from China has lead in it maybe we can get some gas ?

[frisco-rigid]

Ha,, interesting way to look at it Wright..
I rekon they just put in less Di-methyl or tri-methyl benzene to make up for the increased octane of the ethanol..
The folks won't know the diff cuz the octane sticker will be the same, that is, until their gas mileage goes through the floor..

I've read a hundred times about the horrid lead (tetra-ethyl lead) hurting everything from the plants to the planet but it was still the best octane..
It is it's own lubrication..

Other real octane products like the bezenes I mentioned, need to have a lubricant added otherwise they'll harm the motor..
Then guess what--- you just lowered the octane again..
A viscious circle--

Octane is useless unless the motor is specifically built to need it, but you know that.. The 91 we have works just fine in my 93", 120" and the 127"..

[JCourneyaP]

So if you use a higher Octane in a motor that don't need it......Is there a benifit to it? Just a waste of money? Better gas milage or does it hinder and gas milage goes down?

[Wrightturn]

Hey Joe,

Octane is not a measure of energy. It just lets us know how much you can compress a fuel charege before it explodes. If your engine doesn`t knock (detonate) on lower octane fuel than higher octane is a waste of money. It does no harm with one exception. If you run high octane fuel in an ecm controlled engine and than switch to lower octane your engine may knock until the sensors change the program and alter the timing or fuel mixture.

The problem with ethanol is that there is less energy than before. Gas mileage is going down along with power. If you see higher numbers at the pump it does not mean you will go faster or father.

[JCourneyaP]

Well we better all hit the gym......They go ahead and basterdize the fuel we all gonna be pushing are bikes down the road.

So I still do not see the benefit of ethanol.......Why are they so humped up on this..........?

Wright- I understand the Octane..I was just wondering. In my car I opened up the exhaust and intake. Added a chip that plays with the timing and mix.
They recommended The Higher Octane. Now I notice no seat of the pants differance between 87 and 93 like you said. However I get better gas milage with the lower Octane Fuel.

So is that because of the Octane or the chip??? Gosh dang computer controlled &^%$#.

[evoKENevo]

Staight from Wikipedia...

Fuels with higher octane-ratings explode LESS easily, yet are popularly thought of as MORE powerful. This misunderstanding is caused by confusing the ability of fuel to resist detonation..as opposed to the ability of the fuel to burn = combustion.

*************************************


The power output of an engine depends on the energy content of its fuel, and this bears no simple relationship to the octane rating. A common understanding that may apply in ONLY limited circumstances amongst petrol consumers is that adding a higher octane fuel to a vehicle's engine will increase its performance and/or lessen its fuel consumption; may be FALSE under MOST conditions.
Engines perform best when using fuel with the octane rating for which they were designed and any increase in performance by using a fuel with a different octane rating is MINIMAL or even IMAGINARY, unless there are carbon hotspots, fuel injector clogging or other conditions that may cause a lean situation that can cause knocking that are more common in high mileage vehicles, which would cause modern cars to retard timing thus leading to a loss of both responsiveness and fuel economy.

[Wrightturn]

Hey Ken and Joe,

You nailed it Ken. My point with Frisco was that the industry is not above making a buck off the misunderstanding. I onced put nitromethanol into the gas on a drag bike. Went slower. Motors have to be set up for the fuel they are using. Alcohol motors go faster than gas but they are built for alcohol super high compression to gain any hp. Then you just have to figure out how to start them. I wonder if an ecm motor with a turbo could benefit from 85/15 with 110 octane or will they just screw with the other ingredients ?

Joe if the higher octane fuel has more ethanol to get the higher octane you are better off with the lower octane. Ethanol is a really bad idea in practice.

[evoKENevo]

Yo,Wright
I've never messed with Nitro and/or Alcohol ('cept beer,etc.)..but my LIMITED understanding of the stuff starts with the whole idea that it's OXGEN burning/exploding that gives the POWER you want..and "fuel" is just the catalyst.
Nitro,in addition to being denser,etc, has a larger % of oxygen in it than other fuels..making it that much more volatile/explosive..and alcohol is added/combined to it due to it's higher octane rating to INCREASE combustion LAG and REDUCE volatility,as needed,as well as to "thin-it-out" so to speak..noting that "gas" does'nt mix very well with the stuff.

As for starting an engine that runs on pure alcohol...that's - as I'm sure YOU'RE aware - why you see them squirting/injecting stuff like either into the intake while cranking it over..

Can't help any with the question of ethanol as it relates to un-naturally aspertated Turbo and/or Supercharged engines...'cept to point out the obvious need for higher octane fuel,as a rule...and,ethanol laced fuel being the only readily avail. at the pumps these days..same as for any naturally asperated higher CR engine..take or leave, unless you wanna play with your chemistry set I guess !?!

Now,as for "the industry" NOT making a buck off the "misunderstanding" ???
Uhh,why do you suppose they INVE$T in ADVERTI$ING to SELL you on high-octane for WHATEVER you're driving/riding ???
Ever see a comercial telling you to put low-octane in your tank, for better results ???

Hmmm..higher priced fuel that gives you less mileage..and finds you coming back for it more often....sounds like a "cash-cow"
to Meeee !!!