Why Ethanol? Harley Emission & EPA Laws Discuss Why Ethanol? in the Harley Tech & Harley How-to forums; If ethanol costs more money than refined gasoline why are we using it in our fuel mix?...

[Buzz Kanter]

If ethanol costs more money than refined gasoline why are we using it in our fuel mix?

[shovelmike]

The lobbyists for the farming interests is why things are going to ethanol.

[JCourneyaP]

We been asking that question for a long time now. Cost more to refine. Uses more energy and pollutes when refined. But dang it is home grown. Dont need the Arabs for corn. I see no benefit in it.

[Majicbringer]

Ethanol makes rich people more money and it's good PR for those in office that it's "greener". Depending what expert you want to ask, ethanol costs between $.36 and $.86 per gallon MORE to producte than gasoline. Then add in 30%+ in costs to your fuel bill from the 30% reduction in MPG.

It also takes what the average person eats in a year (all food total) in corn to fill an SUV tank with ethanol.

I've listed the problems with it before but, other than it does reduce emissions a bit, I can't think of one benefit for the consumer to use ethanol.

- Cost more per gallon to make than gasoline.

- Hygroscopic - So it attracts water. Water + Fuel = Going nowhere.

- Corrosive - The ethanol (alcohol) eats pretty much everything in comes into contact with, including the rubber and metal in fuel lines, motors, and gas tanks. So everything it comes in contact with at any amount above 10 % - 15% ethanol has to be converted to handle it or die.

- Doesn't store, or transport, well because it's both hygroscopic and corrosive. So, no big tanks of ethanol like you see the giant tanks of gas and oil on the nightly news. This is why there are so many plans for putting an ethanol refinery every few hundred miles. Plus: Special storage tanks would have to be built. Special tankers for both sea and ground. Special pipelines... And from there the sh!t runs downhill fast - Gas stations would have to upgrade their equiment. Most gas operated vehicles and equipment would have to be modified to accept higher percentage ethanol content without damage. Who's going to pay for that? The oil co's can just get us to pay for it at the pump and through more tax breaks. But regular Joes aren't going to get anyone to pay for their stuff to be upgraded. It'll eat that lawnmower, weedwhacker, and chainsaw just as
easy as a car or bike.

- Every peice of aerable farmland in the US would have to be planted with corn, and that is still not enough to reduce our need for oil by more than 20% - 30%. And, worse, no more corn stands to stop at to get some corn on the cob for dinner, and no corn puffs for breakfast anymore.

Special interest advocates, pork (corn growers/producers and ethanol produces), politics (we have generations raised and educated on dissin' the US, our "wasteful" consumption practices, the ad ol' Native American crying over the polluted stream, etc., etc. so they believe in green intuitively, not objectively. Our jaded pols and business folks finally decided to give in, give 'em what they want, and figure out how to make $$ in the process.

Most Americans believe we can - and could have already except for the evil oil companies - totally replace fossil fuel with clean alternatives. That's BS, I'm afraid. The world's net increase is about 73,000,000 souls/year. Add in the rising standards of living in China, India, Brazil, etc. and you've got a situation where we're going to need every last bit of energy from every existing source, including fossil, PLUS whatever new we can come up with just to maintain status quo.

What most don't understand is someone will be taking fossil fuel and using it to advance their economy and to improve the lot of their citizens, just as we have done up to now. Why we don't focus on continuing to get what we need, rather than feel guilty, is what gets me.

JB

[JayDee]

After reading all the responses I gotta ask why are we doing it?

[Whopper]

JayDee, I doubt you will find many in favor of ethanol on this site. The "line" offered by the "greenies" is that the addition of ethanol reduces our dependency on oil imports and reduces CO2 emissions. While there may be some truth to that, we must not forget the lobbying effort by such companies as Cargill, who make a bunch of $ selling ethanol.

The new CAFE regulations provide auto manufacturers "credits" if they produce flex-fuel vehicles. That means a manufacturer's vehicle mix may not meet the average economy but it is assumed that his flex-fuel models are using less gasoline due to the ethanol content so he gets credit for better economy than he actually produces. Another successful lobbying effort.

If you want to get really scared, visit a site like "autobloggreen.com" and see what the green nut-cases are really like!

[shovelmike]

Originally Posted by Majicbringer

Ethanol makes rich people more money and it's good PR for those in office that it's "greener". Depending what expert you want to ask, ethanol costs between $.36 and $.86 per gallon MORE to producte than gasoline. Then add in 30%+ in costs to your fuel bill from the 30% reduction in MPG.

It also takes what the average person eats in a year (all food total) in corn to fill an SUV tank with ethanol.

I've listed the problems with it before but, other than it does reduce emissions a bit, I can't think of one benefit for the consumer to use ethanol.

- Cost more per gallon to make than gasoline.

- Hygroscopic - So it attracts water. Water + Fuel = Going nowhere.

- Corrosive - The ethanol (alcohol) eats pretty much everything in comes into contact with, including the rubber and metal in fuel lines, motors, and gas tanks. So everything it comes in contact with at any amount above 10 % - 15% ethanol has to be converted to handle it or die.

- Doesn't store, or transport, well because it's both hygroscopic and corrosive. So, no big tanks of ethanol like you see the giant tanks of gas and oil on the nightly news. This is why there are so many plans for putting an ethanol refinery every few hundred miles. Plus: Special storage tanks would have to be built. Special tankers for both sea and ground. Special pipelines... And from there the sh!t runs downhill fast - Gas stations would have to upgrade their equiment. Most gas operated vehicles and equipment would have to be modified to accept higher percentage ethanol content without damage. Who's going to pay for that? The oil co's can just get us to pay for it at the pump and through more tax breaks. But regular Joes aren't going to get anyone to pay for their stuff to be upgraded. It'll eat that lawnmower, weedwhacker, and chainsaw just as
easy as a car or bike.

- Every peice of aerable farmland in the US would have to be planted with corn, and that is still not enough to reduce our need for oil by more than 20% - 30%. And, worse, no more corn stands to stop at to get some corn on the cob for dinner, and no corn puffs for breakfast anymore.

It's gonna kill those weed wackers and other 2 strokes even faster than the 4 strokes. The ethanol doesn't like to stay mixed with the gasoline very well anyway. Once it attracts some water it can easily separate. When that engine gets a slug of ethanol/water it is a hot burn with no oil.....a good chance of cylinder scoring or seizure.

Good God, y'all!!!

Sincerely wish you hadn't told me about that site. One of the first things I ran across was an article entitled, "Pelosi commends Bush on 31.6 mpg by 2015 step".

The day Pelosi commends Bush is the day I realize all is truly lost.

JB

[frisco-rigid]

It's soooooo nice to hang with like minded folk..

Please allow me to re-iterate my stance on voting..

Even though we can all find a few weak-kneed wishy washy stupid ignorant self-centered republicans in the Pinko-Commie tree-hugging side of the aisle there are still waaaay less of them than True Pinko-Commie Dems..
That is why I must vote for the LEAST harmful to America which always is Republicans..
A true Conservative woulda stopped this wild-nutty-stupid-UnAmerican swing to the left in it's tracks but,, all we can do now is hope MCcain wins cuz the alternative will surely Destroy what America has left..

Go more slowly into Socialism with the Republicans or Full-Tilt-Boogie into an Americanized form of Totalitarian Socio/Communism with the Dems/Liberals..