Increased Ethanol Levels Will Damage Harleys

[Buzz Kanter]

AMA Concerned About Proposed Increased Ethanol Levels in Gasoline

The American Motorcyclist Association has expressed concern about unanticipated consequences of proposals that might allow gas stations to increase the level of ethanol in the fuel they sell.

Currently, pump gasoline in the United States can contain up to 10 percent ethanol, which is used to increase octane, reduce carbon monoxide emissions and provide an alternative to petroleum-based fuels.

But now, the state of Minnesota is seeking permission from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to allow the sale of fuel that includes 20 percent ethanol. And that has led to concerns about the effects on motorcycle engines, which manufacturers say are only certified to run on fuels containing the current 10 percent blend.

The difference could be significant, since burning ethanol creates more heat than conventional gasoline, which has the potential to damage air-cooled motorcycle engines. In addition, fuel systems on bikes may be susceptible to corrosive effects of higher concentrations of ethanol in gas. And while ethanol helps reduce carbon monoxide levels in engine exhaust, it can also increase the levels of oxides of nitrogen, one of the components of smog.

"The AMA supports the use of cleaner-burning fuels, but we are concerned about premature engine damage or failure while a bike is being ridden on a highway if the allowable level of ethanol is raised to 20 percent," said Imre Szauter, AMA legislative affairs specialist. "We are also concerned about any degradation in performance, fuel economy and rideability that may result from the long-term use of blended fuels with greater than 10 percent ethanol."

The proposal currently under consideration comes from Minnesota, but the AMA notes that an EPA waiver would open the door to the sale of 20 percent ethanol blends across the country, without any evaluation of the long-term consequences. With the limited number of choices at gas stations, that could force out existing blends and leave some riders without a suitable fuel choice for their vehicles.

"Until studies show that a 20 percent ethanol blend won't damage motorcycle or ATV engines, and won't make motorcycles emit more nitrogen oxides than are allowed by the EPA, the AMA can't support the Minnesota proposal," Szauter said.

The AMA is a member of AllSAFE, the Alliance for a Safe Alternative Fuels Environment, a group formed to ensure that new bio-based fuels such as ethanol are promoted in a thoughtful manner. AllSAFE is made up of associations that represent consumer and commercial users of ethanol blends, manufacturers of boats, vehicles, engines and equipment, and retailers who sell gasoline and ethanol-fuel blends.

For more information on ethanol-fuel blends, go to www.allsafe-fuel.org.

[47knuck]

That corn juice has already screwed up my carb bad enough without getting worse. I had to replace the stock float with a brass one and reset all the settings in the carb once. Please not again!

[frisco-rigid]

I bet a hundred members are going to scream, "Jeeeeze, why does frisco-rigid have to bring politics into this..??"

Well the answer is this... It is always politics at the bottom of all that is done to us in America...
It's the Liberals, the Democrats that brought you/us the over restrictive un-American pinko-commie EPA laws...
Yes, many Republicans have jumped on board that road to the Left but it is the Democrats/Liberals that want more oil-based restrictions on US...

Until the citizens of America wake up and SEE who is screwing them and do something about it by voting Conservative it's just gonna get worse...

Scream baby scream...

[Whopper]

Hi frisco-rigid,
It is painful, but true, that the EPA regs have yielded some benefit. Valid, air quality alert days, have been reduced by 80% nation-wide since 1983. This relates to pollution from all sources, vehicular and stationary. I'm no fan of liberal or conservative politicians when it comes to technical issues, which is what air pollution is all about. It seems, however, that keeping a balance between the two sides results in a workable solution. When push comes to shove you can bet a conservative politician from the corn belt will push biofuels because it benefits his constituants regardless of the fact that redirecting food supplies to fuel is a losing proposition. We need that liberal from Vermont to challange the corn belt politico. See, the "creative tension" works.
Regards,
Whopper

[Majicbringer]

The thing is that everyone in the industry and the gov't knows that more than 10% booze and it's going to harm any vehicle that's not built, or prepared, for it. This is like planned obsolescence; only they aren't waiting for a slow natural death, they're trying to kill off older vehicles. Does anyone else remember when there were ideas floating around about ridding the world of cars over 10 or 15 years old? How much does industry (and the stockholders) stand to gain if millions of people have to upgrade parts or whole vehicles?

I hear ya Majicbringer. I hope the AMA and others are successful in putting the kabosh on this thing. If you don't belong to one of these groups, join up.

[Majicbringer]

The thing is that ALL these groups have to work tightly together on these issues. I read a little here, a little there, a little more somewhere else from this group or that group, but I have yet to see any real organization of the organizations. They also need to get with car groups, as those cars are going to have the same issues as bike, they just show up in bikes first.

*********

I try not to get into politics on a bike board, but this isn't a liberal issue. It's an issue for everyone. If anyone thinks that only liberals are profiting from this, they are sorely mistaken.

******
People are going gung ho on bad science. Ethanol is more expensive as you loose MPG so everyone has to buy more gas in the long run, E10 is actually pretty expensive to produce right now so it's not even cheaper to start with, the price at the pump for the E10 gas certainly isn't any different, and there's still the issue at hand - it kills engines. Additionally, because the corn market has gone haywire everything has gone up - Milk products, meat, animal feed, stove fuel, dog food.. If corn is in the making process the price has gone up.

Right now I'm trying to get people to listen to me about something I'm working on that will significantly increase MPG, boost power, and seriously cut emissions. But people treat it like it's snake oil. "It's too simple," was one response. But I'm willing to keep banging my head against the wall until someone with some brain and balls (or ovaries) listens. I know I can't be the only one.

majic your absolutly right on this. ethanol is more expensive to produce than a lot of other alternatives. I personally see operating a tractor and a chevy van on constant fluid pressure, no combustion what so ever. This idea was publised in the news and when I followed up to see what the progress was I was told that this guy was stepping an a general motors patent end of a logical idea. If simple everyday people can come up with these ideas you know the brains of corporations have done so already. greed is the problem

[Majicbringer]

The thing I am working on is cheap and easy, but I need $$ for some more study. To get a loan, first I have to prove I don't need one. Like if I had X-amount of dollars I'd be at the bank asking for money. Sometimes I swear the banks are in collusion with the oil and car companies. And sometimes I think that the world doesn't want a better mousetrap, no matter how the old saying goes.
I know of a guy in my town developed an exhaust product that would up MPG by at least 25 miles on anything you ran it on. One of the car co.'s bought the rights to it and now it's well hidden in some deep dark archive, if it wasn't burnt.
We all know stories about someone that invented something that got more MPG and was bought up.
I'm not much of a conspiracy guy, but I really do think that the car and oil companies work together. I was surprised that when gas started hitting $60+@barrel and the oil guys were making record profits, and people were trying to buy a Prius while the US gas guzzlers were sitting in lots, that the Big 3 didn't say, "Screw us, will ya'? We're are those plans for that 50MPG gizmo go?..."

Ethenol may be a good thing.

Think about it.

If they continue to add more Ethenol to gas and bikes are designed to use it......

You can pull up to the nearest watering hole and you and your bike can have a toast together.

Good looking Ladies can bring ya out a Hot Dog and a bottle and you can share it with your bike. I think my ride would like to share a touch of Jack Daniels. As Frisco would say..........Yeah Baby!