Have you actually had to fix these conditions or are you just winging it man..
I don't mean to pick on ya, it's just that I believe your advice is mis-leading..
..
Frisco when I got my 01 fat, after about five hundred miles I noticed a constant squeaking. When I took it in for the 1k check up. They checked the rear tire alignment, and belt tension and pronounced it factory spec.
I rode it this way till my 10k and the rear tire was worn out. I noticed the tire was worn more on one side than the other. Been so long don’t remember which side, but it was not like a crown wear. I’m sure you know the difference in what a scuffed tire looks like. It is uneven wear, and wears left to right, right to left at a different height on the lubes, like it is dragging.
Don’t know if I explained that right, but think you know what I am talking about.
Also noticed that the bike pulled to the right, all the time, especially when I took my hands off the handle bars.. When I complained about that of course they said you should never ride without your hands. And just smiled at me.
I also noticed the belt never tracked in when backing up.
Then I check the alignment and it was offset almost a half inch, front tire to the right.
Got out my manual and the FLSTF and Heritage are offset .359 inches from straight.
And no I am not talking about the rear tire spacers.
So being a internet junkie, ask about it in a Harley Tech board in another forum.
Got several dealer techs that said every bike is different, and that usually there was no problem aligning to factory specs, but that the Softail is different because the alignment is offset to counter the offset weight.
They said the FLH was usually not a problem, because the motor could be balanced in the frame and aligned to the rear pulley.
They suggested aligning the bike to feel, that this is what they did when they ran into this problem with a customers bike when it did not feel right. And that is what I did, I aligned it by feel.
I sat down and figured how the tire was scuffing, how it pulled to the right, took in consideration of the belt and moved the alignment to the right until I was comfortable with a comprise of the three.
No more belt squeak (until the pulley wore out) the belt tracked perfict, not near as much pull, it is just comfortable with my right hand laying there, and the tire wear is almost perfect.
I get the little more wear on the left side like you say from the crown in the road.
So yes this is a problem that I had, no I am not winging it, this is advice that I got from people a whole lot smarter than me, I am just passing it on.
And no I don’t blame you for calling me out when you see something that does not sound right, that is how we keep the forum trustworthy.
Like I said in my original post I am not a HD tech, and that not all bikes are going to need this extreme adjustment.
Just trying to get people to realize just because it says so in the book does not make it infallible.
I can tell you're a good man and honest, yes I think so..
I always encourage fellow members to learn to do for themselves and I respect all that try..
You took the bull by the horns and got what feels good to you,, heck you'll get nothing but atta-boys from me ----BUT- the prob I have with the "techs" suggestion to adjust by feel is that, by doing so a fellow doesn't know where he's beginning at or where he ends up.. In-other-words,, why was it off, by how much was it off, and what are the end results.. If it can't be duplicated it cannot be a proven method..!
I'll just re-state if I may..
The axel should always be exactly 90* to the frame center-line (back-bone and neck)..
If it's off-set (spaced) to the side for some reason it should still be exactly parallel to the frame center-line..
Since exactly is virtually impossible one must strive for perfection then one will get real darn close..
Yeah Baby..!!
__________________ "Fill your hands you son of a bitch"
Rooster Cogburn
Frisco, I could never figure this out either, why the factory specs call for the alignment to be adjusted 0.359 to the left, using an I-beam.
It came from the factory that way, then the techs at the dealership checked it and left it that way and that is what my FM calls for. I have never seen anywhere where the FM was wrong, although that would not surprise me.
The Fatboy and Heritage both have the front tire the same size as the rear. Why they would mis-align like this has only been explained as HD way of balancing the bike.
Why is there only problems with some bikes I don’t know, the frame welds at the factory was the only thing suggested that made sense to me.
This was discussed back in 01 and the conversation soon turned to why is my bike pulling.
And the advice to adjust for feel did came from a Harley Tech, with an arm load of credentials. I can look up the thread if you are interested, don’t know if it’s still there or not.
I know a little about alignment not a expert, but done my share. Know about tire wear, handling characteristics.
When I was a kid, and could not afford a fancy store bought alignment for our cars, we used to always do our own. Used a level for the camber and tape measure and paper tape for the toe. Adjust the camber, then get the toe close with the tape measure. Then run several strips of paper tape across the tire. Then run it down a straight road, until the tape started to wear off.
Adjust the toe according to wear.
The castor is a little harder, that you just have to do by feel, and have a good understanding what is wrong then adjust it. Explaining how to do this would take way to much time, if anyone is interested do a search for castor affects, trail.
If you have ever talked to a precision alignment pro, (no we are not talking about tiremart) they will tell you they use the factory spec as a stating point, go by tire wear, how the car drives for the final adjustment.
I won’t mess with struts, but a-frame, solids, trailing arms, I can get them real........... close.
The factory specs on my bike were off. I just took it in my hands to evaluate it and field test it until it was right. As I was playing around with the alignment, some times the bike would not make it out of my shop. (The belt not tracking right) Every time I rode it felt different, but not as much as you would think. Kept track of where I started, what each adjustment felt like, found what I liked best.
Now I just know what to set it at.
This was 70,000 miles ago.
I always hesitate giving this information, because you don’t know the ability of people reading it. That is why I did not post it until ask. And tried to use appropriate warnings.
Doing it this way you need to take in all three criteria, where the belt rides, if the bike pulls, and tire wear.
And like I said, no problem with you questioning me, I have nothing but respect for you, and this is how we keep the site honest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frisco-rigid
I can tell you're a good man and honest, yes I think so..
I always encourage fellow members to learn to do for themselves and I respect all that try..
You took the bull by the horns and got what feels good to you,, heck you'll get nothing but atta-boys from me ----BUT- the prob I have with the "techs" suggestion to adjust by feel is that, by doing so a fellow doesn't know where he's beginning at or where he ends up.. In-other-words,, why was it off, by how much was it off, and what are the end results.. If it can't be duplicated it cannot be a proven method..!
I'll just re-state if I may..
The axel should always be exactly 90* to the frame center-line (back-bone and neck)..
If it's off-set (spaced) to the side for some reason it should still be exactly parallel to the frame center-line..
Since exactly is virtually impossible one must strive for perfection then one will get real darn close..
Yeah Baby..!!
Here is where my curiosity takes me now.. I don't have an FM for your sickle so do your best to fill me in..
""Frisco, I could never figure this out either, why the factory specs call for the alignment to be adjusted 0.359 to the left, using an I-beam.""
AND this one--------
""Got out my manual and the FLSTF and Heritage are offset .359 inches from straight. And no I am not talking about the rear tire spacers.""
If you're supposed to actually align/aim the rear .359" off straight, where do you align/aim it to.. Off the front tire right edge, left edge or the center.. The front of the front tire or back or straight down from the axel.. OR to a point a mile away..????? This makes no sense to me..
I have a very diff time accepting that you must actually re-aim the rear..
Are you ABSOLUTELY sure it does not mean the rear wheel is spaced .359" to the left..?? Work with me here, this special wierd alignment twists my head..
Since you state that it was actually AIMED .359" to the left from the Factory not spaced,, and, you re-aimed it to the right during you trial-error,, is it possible that you just lucked out and re-aimed it real close to straight and in-line with the front.?
BUT, if it was actually SPACED .359" to the left,, then, after you re-aimed it to the right it would be aimed off to the right.. My head hurts..!! Do you see why I'm burning with curiosity..?
__________________ "Fill your hands you son of a bitch"
Rooster Cogburn
Frisco no problem, you put a straight edge on the rear tire, on the left side and up to the front tire. It should touch the rear tire, and The measurement to the front tire is supposed to be .359 inches.
You are supposed to measure off the rim of both and subtract the distance of the tire from the rim from both measurements and equal .359
But running the straight edge against the tire gets the same affect.
Yes both the front tire and rear tire are the same size so it is actually out of alignment .359 inches.
And yes when I was done with my trial and air alignment it was pretty close to straight.
At straight the belt rides in all the time, so about an eight,sixteenth to the left.
Let me scan the FM and I will post it. Don’t know if it will be later or tomorrow.
You know I have miss read stuff before, would not surprise me, but I have looked at the FM a hundred times. Hope I aint that dumb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frisco-rigid
Hey HC
If you're supposed to actually align/aim the rear .359" off straight, where do you align/aim it to.. Off the front tire right edge, left edge or the center.. The front of the front tire or back or straight down from the axel.. OR to a point a mile away..????? This makes no sense to me..
I have a very diff time accepting that you must actually re-aim the rear..
Are you ABSOLUTELY sure it does not mean the rear wheel is spaced .359" to the left..?? Work with me here, this special wierd alignment twists my head..
Since you state that it was actually AIMED .359" to the left from the Factory not spaced,, and, you re-aimed it to the right during you trial-error,, is it possible that you just lucked out and re-aimed it real close to straight and in-line with the front.?
BUT, if it was actually SPACED .359" to the left,, then, after you re-aimed it to the right it would be aimed off to the right.. My head hurts..!! Do you see why I'm burning with curiosity..?
Frisco, you know what I am thinking the manual is wrong, the guys at the dealership had the same manual, they aligned it wrong, and this is the problem.
It has never been to the dealership since 01.
We are talking about a FLSTF
Wow,, a picture is worth a thousand words huh--probably about how many typed words we wasted..
It shows right in the photo fig. 2-53---- the wheel is off-set by SPACING it with the axel spacer to the left,, NOT by aiming/pointing it to the left which is what I understood you to say a couple times..
It shows-- pointed dead straight ahead in-line and parallel with the front But simply off-set to the left..
Apparently, when you got it, it was AIMED/POINTED in-correctly until you started to experiment and ended up aiming/pointing it correctly,, straight ahead..
Yeah Baby, we're on the same page now..
__________________ "Fill your hands you son of a bitch"
Rooster Cogburn
Wow,, a picture is worth a thousand words huh--probably about how many typed words we wasted..
It shows right in the photo fig. 2-53---- the wheel is off-set by SPACING it with the axel spacer to the left,, NOT by aiming/pointing it to the left which is what I understood you to say a couple times..
It shows-- pointed dead straight ahead in-line and parallel with the front But simply off-set to the left..
Apparently, when you got it, it was AIMED/POINTED in-correctly until you started to experiment and ended up aiming/pointing it correctly,, straight ahead..
Yeah Baby, we're on the same page now..
Yes a picture does get us on the same page.
That is factory specs. However there is one problem the photo shows the rear tire larger than the front, on the FLSTF they are both 130/90.
When I got the bike this is how it was aligned and how the dealership checked the alignment.
I have never changed the wheel spacers, I have been very careful not to switch them.
When it was aligned like this I had nothing but problems. If you were in a parking lot the bike would go around in a big circle if you let off your hands. Probably to the point where it would fall down, let say a real bad pull to the right.
In order to balance it you would have to lean so far to the left you practically had to stand on the left floorboard.
Also this is when I had the problem with the tire wear and the belt squeaking because it rubbed so hard going to the outside of the pulley.
Here is a Photoshoped version of the same picture and how the bike is aligned now. I have made the front tire in the photo bigger to reflect the actual size of the FLSTF front tire.
I did not change the spacers in the wheels but turned the rear tire with the adjusters to align it with the front tire.
Now there is no .359 gap between the straight edge and the tire
Like this.
Like said I think the manual is wrong.
Might wanna check your wheel/pulley & belt align'mt while you're at it, too...
If the wheels or pulleys were out of line the noise would be continuous and go at the speed of the engine/bike. It can't hurt to check these things but don't be disappointed if it doesn't fix the squeak. If you can hear it over the engine noise it's probably near the front of the bike and above the engine. Check your throttle cables to see if they are adjusted properly. This sounds like one of those cricket type of squeaks that will turn out to be something really simple but drive you batty until you find it. Good luck.
Hey.tagrat...welcome aboard...always glad to see the site grow
Just for the record the post of mine quoted above was also intended as a REMINDER to check wheel/pulley & belt align'mt ALONG with the adust'mt of belt tension (suggested prior to my post) only because I've seen it where guys have adjusted tension on the belt and gotten the wheel & pulley out of align'mt while at it. Which,of course, just tends to complicate matters,that much more...and,drive one "batty" as you say !!!
__________________ "If at first you don't succeed, try again...then swear"
Mark Twain
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