Crane ignition moduels Harley Evo Discuss Crane ignition moduels in the Motorcycles forums; Does anyone know what it would take to change my crane dual fire ign. Over to a crane single fire ign. Have had the dual fire in since 2001 and ...

Does anyone know what it would take to change my crane dual fire ign. Over to a crane single fire ign. Have had the dual fire in since 2001 and it has gone out, and now i find that no one has the dual fire aval. Any more, have heard that the single fire is better anyway... Any help is greatly app. Thanks... Dave

[evoKENevo]

bgddy:

You did'nt mention what model/year your bike is..but since the TC models are all single fire from the factory (to the best of my knowledge) I'm going to ass-ume that yours is an EVO model. I went with a Dyna 2000i syst'm on mine (mostly because I got a DEAL on it) with the nose cone pickup/module(eliminating the stock ECM under the seat) and hotter single fire coils,required on this set-up. The installation & timing was a walk in the park..just following the instructions. I really like the ability to select from a varietly of advance curves..noting I stuck with the stock initial timing, choosing the slightly faster curve setting (suiting MY other modifications) and have had ZERO issues with it since installing it,on my '98 Evo, back in '03 and have put aprox. 43-K miles on this ign., so far.

I'm not about to switch now..but I've seen other syst'ms come out with MSD,etc., since then..and, you might want to check them out. But,in any case, you would'nt be looking at doing a MAJOR project...ass-uming (again) that you have,at least, the BASIC skills & tools,etc.,of course.

Hope this helps some....

[frisco-rigid]

Hi Dave

I've heard good things about the 2000i ken speaks about, never run one though..
Where have you looked.? I see Dual-fire available in all my catalogs..

I have run several diff single-fire and dual-fire systems including 3 diff Crane models and never felt any diff at all in performance, starting, smoothness, mileage, Nothing at all.. That's why I still use points in my 120"..
Also,, 5 of them have blown out on me..

I think it's interesting that the tech guys on the Nightrider site have also not felt any diff at all in their dyno tests between dual and single fire..

Have a ball..

[evoKENevo]

frisco/others:
I read the same Nightrider evalution (and others) regarding the pros & cons of single VS dual fire..all saying pretty much the same thing. That and I can't give much of an accurate evalution,of my own..because at the same time I switched from a dual cross over exh. syst'm to staggered duals and did some carb jetting & adjusting,etc. But "hey" it's IN there..it came in a PKG-DEAL (legal) with the new Exh and new R.tire ( for 500** total)and, it certainly does'nt seem to have hurt anything. What I do like about this syst'm is the advance curve selection. But then again that's available on dual-fire syst'ms too. Sooooo...I'm back to ??? again.

thanks for the input, i have also seen the duel fire in all my catalogs, but when tring to order them have had no luck, most common reply is they have been back ordered for the last 3 mos. have consered the dyna but the cost is too much for me at this time. have found an Ultima kit from JIREH cycle supply, am considering it because i have heard good things about their motors and it is only 150. conpaired to the 400. to 475. price of the crane and dynas.....again thanks for your advice....dave

by the way i am working on a 98 fatboy that has hooker stepped pipes, a thunderslide kit in carb, and as of now a crane hi4 ign. with an accel coil and 8.5mm plug wires.....dave

[frisco-rigid]

Hi Bg

Unfortunately, and I mean that-- I have had bad luck with the 127" Ultima motor that I installed in Feb..
And it also came with one of their Ultima ignitions which is made by Crane..

The ignition simply would not do the job and it's the one they recommend and send with the motor.. I cannot tell you what the prob was, I can only say that the motor ran erratic and poorly.. I installed an older HI-4 I had and it ran better BUT all the poor running disappeared after I installed an old Dyna S Single-Fire that I had converted to Dual-Fire by using one of their Dual-Fire rotors along with hooking up only the front cylinder modual, and a standard dual-fire coil.. It runs fine now.. Of course I have to use the old-style timing weight mechanism, which I prefer, with the strongest springs I had.. It is very smooth now and very powerful..
Hey, this should be in the dollar saver sub-forum too----The Dyna S Dual-fire kit, (modual and coil) is $150 ,free delivery, No. 53-500 outa Jireh Cycles.. The Single-Fire with 2 individual single-fire coils is $210 delivered..

I came back in because I decided to edit out what I said about the probs with the motor..
I think it is more important to say that Ultima immediately acknowledged the probs and warranteed the work without question or hesitation.. And I must say that the motor is very strong and smooth..
If I have more to report later I will..
It was much better service and co-operation than I got with S&S, that's for sure..


Hey Ken---- sounds like you got a great deal..

frisco, thanks for the heads up on the deal from jireh cycles, i spoke to the sales person and he was very informative, as a matter of fact he switched his crane out for the dyna unit and said he was very pleased with the results.so needless to say i ordered the kit will let you know how it works on my bike....dave

[evoKENevo]

Originally Posted by frisco-rigid

Hi Dave

I've heard good things about the 2000i ken speaks about, never run one though..
Where have you looked.? I see Dual-fire available in all my catalogs..

I have run several diff single-fire and dual-fire systems including 3 diff Crane models and never felt any diff at all in performance, starting, smoothness, mileage, Nothing at all.. That's why I still use points in my 120"..
Also,, 5 of them have blown out on me..

I think it's interesting that the tech guys on the Nightrider site have also not felt any diff at all in their dyno tests between dual and single fire..

Have a ball..

Originally Posted by evoKENevo

frisco/others:
I read the same Nightrider evalution (and others) regarding the pros & cons of single VS dual fire..all saying pretty much the same thing. That and I can't give much of an accurate evalution,of my own..because at the same time I switched from a dual cross over exh. syst'm to staggered duals and did some carb jetting & adjusting,etc. But "hey" it's IN there..it came in a PKG-DEAL (legal) with the new Exh and new R.tire ( for 500** total)and, it certainly does'nt seem to have hurt anything. What I do like about this syst'm is the advance curve selection. But then again that's available on dual-fire syst'ms too. Sooooo...I'm back to ??? again.

OK..I was on MIKUNI'S web-site this morning and just happened to come across the following...making more sense of all the above
while tieing it all together.


Single & Dual Fire Ignitions:

A dual fire ignition is one that fires both spark plugs at the same time. This means that one spark plug fires in a cylinder filled with compressed air/fuel mixture while the other spark plug fires in an "empty" cylinder. This type ignition can result in rough running and carburetor backfiring, especially when the engine is fitted with long duration cams.

Single fire ignitions only fire a spark plug when the cylinder is filled, compressed and ready. Single fire engine tend to run more smoothly below about 2800 rpm and are less likely to backfire through the carburetor.

All Twin Cam & fuel injected Evolution engines are fitted with single fire ignitions. All carbureted Evolution engines are dual fire.

It is worthwhile to convert an Evo to single fire if a long duration cam is fitted and if the motor is normally run below 2800 in daily use. There is no peak power difference between dual and single fire ignition systems.

Evolution Ignitions:

The Evo motor got a new, solid state, ignition. Nothing to wear; it worked or it didn't. (Actually, the original Evo's ignition was very similar to the late Shovelhead's ignition but had more refined advance curves). From the first, the Evo ignitions were energetic and reliable.

However, Evo ignitions had rather slow advance curves. They tended to deliver a "flat" or "lazy" throttle response below about 3000 rpm. The slow advance curves selected for the Evolution engines were directly related to governmental emission demands. The combination of lean carburetor settings, restrictive air cleaners and mufflers resulted in high engine temperatures. This, in turn, often led to detonation (pinging) which can be very destructive. Harley engineers found it necessary to advance the Evo's ignition very slowly to avoid destructive detonation under extreme conditions.

A typically modified Evo motor with a free-flowing air cleaner, mufflers, an HSR Mikuni (of course) and perhaps a moderate cam does not run hot and does not need an ignition with a slow advance curve to survive. In fact, the stock ignition becomes a liability simply because it does not advance the ignition as quickly as the engine needs for best performance in the 2000 to 3500 rpm range.

The basic success of aftermarket Evo ignitions is due to their quicker advance curves. There is little evidence that alternate ignition systems add much to an Evo motor's peak power output. The stock ignition can make mid-rpm acceleration rather sluggish simply because the ignition is firing later than it should for optimum performance. Once the stock ignition reaches its full advance (at 5000 rpm), it is as effective as any other.

[frisco-rigid]

Ken

How does this make sense and tie it together, to me it sounds very contrary..

So, now we know that Nightrider site and Mik site disagree..
And, like Nightrider, I also have found NO diff.. I only post about my experience and findings.. Remember, I haven't stated that one is better, I have only given my experience..
However, I too have read positive about Single and negative about Dual AND some Neutral like NR offers..

I defy anyone to tell the diff in the way a motor runs below or above 2800 if they do not know what IGN is installed.. Plus, who runs their motor below 2800 in daily use.?

Do you have any real-time experience in the diff between Dual and Single-Fire or are you just going on info on these diff websites.?
Personally, I listen to a guys real experience, Pro or Con to mine, with waay more credibility than his readings..

Also,, what does the "rate of advance" part of the article have to do with the Single-Dual debate.?
A too fast "rate of advance" can surely give a rough ride in the lower range..

If you wanna keep adding Published info, there's surely enough of it, and debating the issue go ahead.. I have given just about all of my experience on the matter..