40 K on '98 Evo FLHPI - Harley Forum

gjsmith56 · #1 01-29-2009, 08:38 PM

Thought I'd get some of your thoughts
First,my Road King has just over 40k now & am experiencing a couple things.Cold start idles @ 600 - 800 dies & then on restart have to throttle 1k rpm 'till warm up. _ maybe the idle speed control needs replaced ?
Also am getting some oil out of the air cleaner &
last ,shifting is normal "klunk in 1st ,but after the tranny warms up shifting is somtimes noisy also there's a strange
rattle noise coming from the tranny area from time to time.
Time to take it to the shop ?

It just had 40k service,too!
History of bike : S.F.P.D. 'till I got it.doubt it was ever exposed to excess heat, but lot's of hills.
thanks for any feed back. Greg
p.s. Be riding since I was 10 (1966 if that matters)
so I'm a little familar with these - my other scoot is a '81 XLCH

unclepsycho · #2 01-29-2009, 11:06 PM

I keep thinking fuel filter..... It is the cheapest "fix" If that don't do it, then it is out of my league.... and there are plenty of fine folks here on the forum that can jump in and help.
I dont do too much fuel injection 'yet'. my '06 Ultra has 30k and runs fine so far.

frisco-rigid · #3 01-30-2009, 02:14 AM

Something to check along with fuel filter is intake leaks----throttle body to manifold then manifold to heads..

Two of the easiest and fastest things to Eliminate..

How's it run after it heats up.?

On cold re-start do you really rev to 10K, does it really go to 10K.?
If yes,,,, you might not have to worry about cold-starts much longer..

The rattle noise from the tranny area.........
Have you checked the primary chain tension.?
Have you checked the tranny pulley for looseness.?
Look for loose brackets, belt guards, belt, inner primary tranny Main-shaft support bearing, etc. etc.. Gotta get your hands in there to Eliminate stuff..
I've never had it happen but have seen a loose clutch hub,, rare that....

Just had a 40K service and none of this was addressed..???? Hmmmm, I wouldn't go back there..
How soon after the service did this Idle prob start.?

gjsmith56 · #4 01-30-2009, 08:54 AM

Thanks Frisco & unclepyscho,
Fuel filter is on the pump in the tank & after it's warm, it rides fine.
That's why I was leaning to the ISC - hot/cold WAS adjusted during service.
And I do have to throtte to 1k 'till warm or in tries to idle at 600 - 800 rpm
and that low isn't good for the fuel pump + it'll die at times.
The primary was adjusted, but I don't think the tranny pulley was.
I put 2k+ since service (had it done @ 39k)but maybe gotta take it in!
Was gonna have the lifters & cam upgraded soon anyway.....
I know some oil can be expected out the breathers in the air filter,but
seems more than normal - any thoughts on that ?

thanks for the advise

evoKENevo · #5 01-30-2009, 10:16 AM

Yo,56...me thinks you need to get your Ks straight

buddy
"10krpm" would = 10,000

RPM in most minds
Thus frisco's subtle comment to the effect that you would'nt have to worry about cold starts much longer..

..before it blows,that is !

Now...based on what you've just explained (otherwise)I'm pretty sure that like me he'll be suspecting your last "service" may be directly connected to your problems. But,w/o jumping the gun or his posts here,I'll just bow out...noting I just could'nt leave the above alone...way TOO funny !!!

Wrightturn · #6 01-30-2009, 10:25 AM

Hey gj,

This is a common problem on Magneti Mareli systems. Not simple to set up and if the bike has been modified it can be an even bigger bear. You have : a Throtle position sensor, Idle Speed Control Actuator, cold idle screw and a hot idle screw any of which can be a problem. When a friend had this problem with his bike I get help from an MMI tech that has since moved from Orlando. The bottom line was replacement of the Throttle position sensor. If you don`t have a "break out box" I can give you some of the voltages the ECM should be receiving but this really isn`t a diy project. There is a relationship between the electronic and mechanical parts to get the MM to cold start and work properly.

Use "an abundance of caution" when doing mods on a bike with an MM system. Picking the right cam, exhaust and fuel control must be matched carefuly. There is a reason HD doesn`t use the MM .

shovelmike · #7 01-30-2009, 10:38 AM

Hey there,56, k = 1000. Therefore 1k is one thousand rpm, I rarely hit 4k (4000 rpm) with my Harleys. If you were able to rev a Harley to 10,000 you would be picking up engine parts in a basket. I'm not poking fun, just clarifying the lingo.
If you suspect the air control valve spray some WD40 in the hole in the valve while turning the ignition on and off a few times. Sometimes they are a little gummed up and this will clean it up, it's worth a try.

gjsmith56 · #8 01-30-2009, 11:20 AM

10k =10,000 yup - hmm...old age ? 1,000 (1K) rpm is obviously my oxygen lacking brain was tryin' to write.4k is about the max I've ever cranked on any H.D.I've owned.
Anyway, now we got THAT sorted out ... Thanks Shovel & Evo & thanks to Wrightturn - the trottle postion sensor had crossed my mind. I'll check it out. The bike is Police stock - no mod's. I don't have a breakout box (what is it ?) Gonna leave the bike stock as I'm learning more about M & M's temperment.
.p.s. just edited the original post 10k to 1k for any new veiwers Thanks,again.......

Wrightturn · #9 01-30-2009, 01:34 PM

Hey gj,

A "break out box" is an expensive piece of test equipment that allows a tech to read and evaluate the voltage going to the ECM. It plugs into the wiring harness and makes life easier. I don`t own one either so I try to collect data so I can use a simple digital volt meter. From my notes : with the throttle plates closed and both idle screws backed off the sensor voltage should be about .275 volt. Now you see the need for a digital meter. This procedure is lengthy and cost me an entire case of Miller Lite. I can dig up my notes and give you the readings and color code for the wires if you want to try it yourself.

evoKENevo · #10 01-30-2009, 01:50 PM

Hey,56...just so you know,I knew you must have just been have'n a brain-fart (like we all do) regarding the 10k thing...and (charactor flaw?) just could'nt let it go,when frisco's hint

seemed to go over your head.

So "anyways"...ironically enough, I just came across Q&A in AIM's Feb'09...Hog Help Line...where the guy described the exact same situation you did with a MM-EFI syst'm on an '01 Ulltra...idles at 600-800 rpm (coughing) 'til it warms up...usually runs for 5 sec. and quits...owner has to restart sit and hold throttle at 1500 rpm 'til it warms up...dealer resets and it runs OK for 5 days before acting up again...etc.

Solution recommended was to R&R the ISC (as suggested here) that's probabley worn and/or sticky...noting I'm with the others here advising an intake leak check first...same as carbed engine.

As for the other problems you described (shift klunk,etc) I'm still suspecting what frisco and others have offered up (me betting on the Primary Chain adjust'mt) and that maybe your "technican" just did'nt retighten things enough as part of your 40-K service/adjust'mts...allowing them to work themselves out of adjust'mt since then. All of which of course should be checked out ASAP before possibley causing any collateral $$$$$ damage.

You also mentioned plans for upgrading your lifters & cam (you'd love the perf-difference) and I just thought I'd stress R&R'ing the stock inner cam bearing with a new Torrington one...even though I bet you intended to as part of the above and just did'nt include it in your post.