Starter "Hang Ups"
Harley Ignition & Harley ElectricsDiscuss Starter "Hang Ups" in the Harley Tech & Harley How-to forums; Hey guys, I've been kicking my '75 FL over for so many years that I'd forgotten why I stopped using the button in the first place! (really). Enter recent back ...
Hey guys, I've been kicking my '75 FL over for so many years that I'd forgotten why I stopped using the button in the first place! (really). Enter recent back surgery, and just plain laziness. time for the button! So... In goes a new battery (twice the $$$ of the one it replaced) and a new start button. Bang! she fired right up.....Three times...Until I left home with her.
First stop for gas. When I hit the button, the bike fired up, but the starter drive didn't return from the ring gear. I "tapped" the solenoid, the starter housing, (and my forehead) w/a mallet, nothing worked. I finally pulled the outer primary, pried the solenoid forks from the drive and used the mallet to "tap" the drive gear back off the ring. Even while tapping the starter button the drive gear wouldn't return to it's place in the starter. With no alternative, sun setting, & 60 miles from home, I pulled the starter bolts, backed it out the few inches till it hit the battery box, held it in place with a bungee cord, and push started it (the back still won't handle kicking) just to get er back in the garage.
Here's the thing, the starter still spins, but it IS still the 1975 starter. I believe I rebuilt it years ago, but I have NO PROBLEM what-so-ever buying a new starter for my scoot if it means a more reliable (if not more enjoyable) ride. Do the problems I described sound like they would be cured by a new starter motor, solenoid, and relay? If so... great, but am I possibly missing something else?
I'm using a friend's computer so we'll will check back here as often as we can, THANKS!
"I may be from the old school, but I graduated last in my class"
Hey stratman, what is the condition of the shaft that the starter drive rides on? Rusty? Solidified lubricant? We used to have a similar problem with starters used on light trucks with manual transmissions - clutch dust would mix with the lubricant on the starter shaft and form a paste that would lock the starter drive up. I'd pull the starter and inspect the shaft before I'd spend $$ on a new starter.
Hey whopper, I pulled the shaft and low & behold the starter drive gear was fused to it! I pryed it off and about 1/2 inch of the spiral spline is ground down. Is there a probable cause for this? I did notice while removing the starter that one of the two !/4 inch mounting nuts was loose and backed off abour 1/2 inch also one of the two allignment pins (same side) is broke off inside the primary housing. could this have caused the starter to (rock) and if so could that have messed up the shaft? (I'd only like to buy one more if possible :-) )
Hey guys, I've been kicking my '75 FL over for so many years that I'd forgotten why I stopped using the button in the first place! (really). Enter recent back surgery, and just plain laziness. time for the button! So... In goes a new battery (twice the $$$ of the one it replaced) and a new start button. Bang! she fired right up.....Three times...Until I left home with her.
First stop for gas. When I hit the button, the bike fired up, but the starter drive didn't return from the ring gear. I "tapped" the solenoid, the starter housing, (and my forehead) w/a mallet, nothing worked. I finally pulled the outer primary, pried the solenoid forks from the drive and used the mallet to "tap" the drive gear back off the ring. Even while tapping the starter button the drive gear wouldn't return to it's place in the starter. With no alternative, sun setting, & 60 miles from home, I pulled the starter bolts, backed it out the few inches till it hit the battery box, held it in place with a bungee cord, and push started it (the back still won't handle kicking) just to get er back in the garage.
Here's the thing, the starter still spins, but it IS still the 1975 starter. I believe I rebuilt it years ago, but I have NO PROBLEM what-so-ever buying a new starter for my scoot if it means a more reliable (if not more enjoyable) ride. Do the problems I described sound like they would be cured by a new starter motor, solenoid, and relay? If so... great, but am I possibly missing something else?
I'm using a friend's computer so we'll will check back here as often as we can, THANKS!
"I may be from the old school, but I graduated last in my class"
Stratman, if the starter works I wouldn't buy another one. What I think has happened is that since you haven't used the starter mechanism for so long it has gotten gunked up with oil debris and is sticking. Remove the starter and the bendix gear and all associated parts and clean everything up and put it back in the bike. I'll bet it'll work. Another thing that might have happened is that the return spring got weak and won't push the bendix back out of contact with the starter gear. Clean everything and reassemble before you do anything else. Keep in mind you're still riding an AMF product one year before they started allowing Harley to do good QA to improve the product.
Hi Stratman,
Starters live a hard life! When you "push the button" the pinion is slammed into engagement and the starter motor gives its maximum cranking torque When the engine starts the ring gear accelerates faster than the starter motor wants to turn so the pinion is thrust out of engagement by the helical spline angle and slammed against a stop.
Now that we feel sorry for the poor old starter, consider that one of the components is a spring that appears to be like a return spring. It may be out in front of the pinion or attached to the solenoid shift yoke in some way. This spring's job, among others, is to keep the pinion out of engagement when the starter is not energized. It also is supposed to prevent the pinion from sitting on the shaft vibrating. If the spring is broken or weak due to heat and age the pinion can vibrate on the shaft. This shaft is usually heat treated with a hard outter surface and a "softer" inner core. When there is limited or a lack of lubrication and the pinion vibrates over a long period of time it can wear the spline away (sometimes referred to as "fretting corrosion"). Then, when you try using the starter, the remaining spline is overloaded and fails.
Being the rolling vibrators that our bikes are, and with your starter motor loose on its mounts, the vibration problem was made much worse from the starter's perspective. I am afraid, having committed a mortal sin against your starter, a rebuild or replacement is in order.
Thanks Whopper! What I learned after HOURS of rolling around in oil on the concrete (Not as fun as it was years ago), you summed up in two dead-on paragraphs. As I've obviously forgotten more than I ever learned (Yes Young Grasshopper, it IS possible), your response served as both a reminder to forget about what you "want" to find wrong, and actually remember how things work, and also the confermation of a second opinion from another (obviosly compitent) A.I. member. Hope others learn from this thread.
Last chapter...Too tired to mess around, ordered new 104kw starter motor (129.00), new solenoid (25.00) , new jackshaft (25.00!), and found a brand new accel starter drive and 4 gauge battery cables in my "box-o-crap" (she wonders why I keep evreything!). Should be good to go (for a while) from here.
Starter "Hang Ups" 
When the engine starts the ring gear accelerates faster than the starter motor wants to turn so the pinion is thrust out of engagement by the helical spline angle and slammed against a stop.
I like to read what's going on but only speak up when I think I can contribute.
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