continuation of ELECTRIC BLUES - Harley Forum

jeluce · #1 10-19-2009, 09:13 PM

traced back to coil bracket... pinched and shorted out. fixed and hooked back up and still runs rough.. so I through the sink at it... new coil (45 dollars) and another dyna s.. still rough... now can that short destoy a coil, ignition module and spark wires... and how hot does a coil get.. I appreciate any advice... your knowledge and wisdom is hard to come by.
thanks

frisco-rigid · #2 10-20-2009, 03:17 AM

Hi Je

Some shorts can destroy Volt-regs, batt's, stators, etc..
Hopefully you Didn't damage anything else..
Plug wires are nearly indestructible,, with the Dyna S's you can even run solid core copper if you want,, I have..

I'm guessing it's a Dyna S Dual-fire since you said coil instead of "coils"..

Does the NEW coil get hot too,, I would be looking for other shorts..

Coils do not normally get very hot unless you leave the ignition ON with motor OFF by mistake,, they can & will blow up, had it happen.. At the very least it can burn itself up and worse scenario---- burn the sickle & house down..

Here's the test for the coil.. Dis-connect switch & ignition wires & remove both plug wires, it can be left in the coil bracket if you want..
Set your Ohm meter on lowest Ohms, now touch the 2 connections (the Primary windings) at each end of the coil,, it should read about 5 Ohms +- a few tenths..
Now set the meter in the 20,000 Ohm range..
Slip the probes into both plug-wire holes (the Seconary),, that should read about 14,000 to 20,000 Ohms..
These tests & more is in the Dyna Lit that came with the unit..

I don't know how much you know so Don't be offended by simple questions..
Are you sure of the timing after swapping Ign's.?
That could be the rough-running source..
Is there any New Kick-back when kick-starting.?
Or does it kinda blubbbba and NOT start.?
The former is too advanced-- latter is retarded..
Did you install the timing weight mechanism & springs correct.?
Is it new.... did you lube it.?

Just in case you want to double-check timing try this----

Eating plugs

Go to the last post where I describe it..
And I have other tricks if you want to try..

jeluce · #3 10-20-2009, 12:45 PM

Thanks for your quick reply... Frisco-Rigid,
I am not easily offended... as for experience level on a 1-10.... ima 3-4. Have clymer manual... and am quick to learn.
1: you are correct... dual fire.
2: coil heat.. very hot to hand... almost unbearable.. not iron hot
3: Ohms & coils.. tested.. dyna- primary:3, sec:11300
old coil with crack- " :5, sec: 16700
4: timing... in process of getting one.. will have one today....
5: timing weight mechansims and springs: they are the old ones and have not been manipulated
6: kickback... yes... blubbbbaaaa yes ... manipulating module... but i am sure the timing light will solve.
Frisco... the dyna coil (dc6-1) i have is a 3 ohm... should it be 5 ohm? As for exposed wires i believe all solved. also on a coil, if secondary is facing me, is the top negative... where blue wires attaches? in ref: timing info... totally rocks... will be done today. i must say with all this kicking of been doing, my right leg now clocks in at 9 secs in the 100 meter. thanks alot frisco.. i have alot to learn and hopefully not alot to burn.

frisco-rigid · #4 10-20-2009, 02:56 PM

Hey Je

The Dyna instruct says to use the 5 Ohm for normal street..
It says 3 Ohm may be used for race..
Personally--- I would get the correct 5 Ohm..

I have used the 3 Ohm for street as an experiment,, don't recall precisely how long,, maybe a week or so and nothing bad happened but I didn't want to push my luck and I went back to 5 Ohm.. I felt NO diff in perf..
BTW-- I've used several DynaS's..

One of the good things about this Dyna S ign. is that you can use Any of the 5 Ohm coils from any manuf'er.. It's simply a regular points coil..

With these old-style points type coils either (Primary) top or bottom connection end can be used for Switch wire or Modual wire..
Just because of where the coil mounts I usually use the top for switch and the bottom for Ign..
Since the coil with the crack is exactly in the correct range on the meter there appears to be nothing wrong with it----at the moment----..
Just for grins & giggles you might put it back in op for a day and see if any probs seem to clear up.. Of course you don't wanna run it on a perm basis..!!

As far as the heat..
Does it get hot even if the motor is OFF/not running..?

jeluce · #5 10-20-2009, 04:13 PM

hey frisco..
yes it does get hot when the motor is not running.... but is does not get hot at all when ignition is off completely. Will do the "grins and giggles" thing... then "Time" it as you have indicated. Now that I have a timing light I won't try the "feel the shock open your eye method". The standard in Joe Poor Boy's Garage. I'll order the coil today.. 5 ohm. I'll let you know of progress... Thanks again...

jeluce · #6 10-22-2009, 07:39 PM

well..well, frisco,
new dyna 5 ohm coil, new spark plug wires and spark plugs gapped at.032... it started after many many attempts.... understand though i have awire coming straight from battery to the coil. so i have no potential interference. so it runs much better... revs with some hesitation.. timing impossible.. the rotor mark flutters past and behind. At 2000 rpms.. she does not stay steady enough to dial it in. so is that mark suppose to stay steady or it normally flutter? plus... frisco, there is mild to moderate smoke from front cylinder muffler. I know you will aks me... spark plugs black and wet.. so maybe fooling with spark? reckon i need a new top end... and if so what is difficulty level... i don't know.. thanks frisco

frisco-rigid · #7 10-22-2009, 09:28 PM

Hi Je

Ok,, first-off I'd get new springs for the weights mech..
I bet yours are Not only old and weak but also the stock "light" spring tension,,, heavier spring weight should stop/lessen that fluttering.. It should flutter NO more than about the width of the THIN mark you made on the inner primary..
If at all possible I'd find the next step up in spring tension..

What degree did you set the final timing at---- front of hole, middle.???
At idle about how far away is the rotor mark from the TDC mark you made on the Inner primary--- should be about 1/2" to 3/4" advanced,, that should be about 5* to 8* advanced at idle..

The smoke from the front cylinder, is it black, white or blue..?
Black is too rich A/F,, Blue is oil and white is usually oil too..
If plugs black & wet at idle I gotta guess you're waaay fat, correct idle A/F adjustment will assist starting-------- what carb.???
What jets..???

I myself would gap no more than .030", kick-start usually likes about .022" to .025", I gap to .028" in my 120" Kicker w/points and my 93" Kicker w/Dyna S..

Don't even think about Top-end yet..!

Summary---- I would be looking at the timing weight springs AND the carb and A/F adjustments/jetting..

You're commin close and doin good so stay with it & we'll "knock it out"..!!!

jeluce · #8 10-23-2009, 01:31 AM

Ok Frisco,

Thanks for your response and I do find your advice invaluable... did feel little hopeless... Will get that weight mech. changed. Have to get back with you on the rotor mark relation to mark on inner primary. full advance at middle of hole. Definite white... no even black or blue. It is a kiehen carb... and the the a/f adjustment... you got me there... Is that what they call idle screw located on top? As for jets... what ever came for that model year... have no clue how to determine. I'll re-gap sparkers. Thanks frisco... it is better though. It revs up well and no popping at when throttling down... Smoke at higher RPMS is practically non-existent. Most of smike at idle. So in comparison to aug the 14th... she runs much better. Thanks again for input....
Joe

frisco-rigid · #9 10-23-2009, 03:36 AM

Hey Joe

For right now ignore that smoke.. Let's get it runnin correct first then decide about that smoke..

You don't need to change the WHOLE weight mech,, just the springs..
But,, if the weights are Very wobbly on their posts then yes you should get a whole new mech and be sure to lightly grease/lube the weight posts and the teeeeensy contact points the weights ride on.. Also a light coat on the center "timing rotor" post..
And remember this------- NEVER throw away anything,, always keep for emergency parts,, capisci.??

You are the Lucky Bum, a stock 77 Keihin.. Yes the Un-Hidden Idle Mix screw is right on top just a 1/2" or so from the top manifold mounting stud..
It is a 38mm (1.5") venturi,,, perfect size and a good carb for your motor ..
I have one as well as one of the newer early 80's model..

Let's hope some dumb-ass (before you got it) has NOT screwed that Idle Mix screw tooo far in and deformed the seat..

When ready,, remove the float bowl and see what low-spd and main jet is installed and check the float level..
Do you have the manual for that year.? You should..!!
If not,, rather than typing it all out for you I can scan the pages you need and send to your e mail..
Let me know---
frisco-rigid@mchsi.com

jeluce · #10 10-23-2009, 07:31 PM

Frisco,
do have a clymer for that year model... and an amf 70 to Early 78 AMF SERVICE manual that i found on ebay. check on the springs... will find them. I'll look at weights closer. I must say I was really bummed about the whole thing... but with your advice and advice of others... she is back to 90%. I think we are almost into "Tweaker Mode".
thanks frisco