Oil On The Road

[BluesFan]

Mixing oils can be bad.

I have in front of me samples ranging with viscosity ranges from 32 to 320 CSt.

Putting an antiwear oil in a worm drive gear box can eat the yellow metal.

NONE OF THAT MATTERS TO US!

You run a 20W50 Syn and need to top off? Try for another 20W50, use a straight 40 or 30, settle for anything W anything. Any oil is better than no oil.

It doesn't matter short term. And by short term, I mean I would wait till next change if I added 40W, maybe 500 miles if I had to use 5W20. 1,000 if it was a reasonable weight, like 10W30.

Diesel oil is better, in the lower weights. "Car" oil at 40 and above, it doesn't matter because the rules are different and they still have decent antiwear additives (for our needs)

As for mixing Syn and dino, so what. Thay are made to be compatible.

And to whoever said the syn oil bearing skating was crap. Kudos Sir! It is complete and utter BS.


In short, get what you can where you can. Make a judgment call on how long you want to go on it.

The above is rough guidance only based on my training and experience as a lubrication engineer. Your mileage may vary.

[frisco-rigid]

Hey Bluesfan

I have always admired the expertise, in your field, that you've brought here because it's always matched what I have read in oil tech articles.. I can trust that..
Not tech articles by oil Co.'s but instead, articles from impartial authors..

But this time I must question you..

Every single oil tech article I've ever read stated NOT to mix Synthetic oil with Dino,, even though Syn is generally based on Dino oil.. NOT that it will be catastrophic but just not a good idea..

However,, mixing diff automotive Dino oil presents No prob..
How can my reading/research and your expertise be sooo diff..??

Of course I agree that in a pinch anything will do..

And how does Anti-wear additives "eat" Yellow metal..? By Yellow metal,, do you mean Bronze/copper based bushings etc.?

[BluesFan]

Thanks Frisco, Nice to know some gets even a tinby little bit from my efforts.

Now,

Look at the section just after the sludge talk here http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

It talks about mixing and even alternating.

In short, it used to be a bad idea, but the modern chemistry is OK and you should see no detrimental effectsw from mixing oil type. My concerns with quicker changes would be based on viscosity "lightening" and additive dilution more than anything else. Since straight 40 is not under the modern EPA umbrella like a 5W-20 it has more additives, and its voscosity is more correct for our 20W-50 specs.

Also, as to mixing these days, ever seen a semisyntheticin the store?

(Sorry, my smart aleckness kicked in.)

As to yellow metal, worm drives made of bronze and similar alloys are attacked by ZDDP, a common antiwear additive in engine oils.

If you were to put engine oil in an industrial gear box you would destroy it. The analysis would start showing more and more copper and then you'sd see particles of metal.

Thus setting up a pitting and gritting environment that would be the equivalent of running with sandpaper in there.

I haven't thought about bushings.

Anyone got an old one you can send me? I'll shoot it with an analyzer and see what it's made of.

Read that article and let me know what you think.

[myt evo]

Blues isn't it also true that 10w/40 also doesn't fall under the EPA umbrella?

[frisco-rigid]

Hey Blues

I've read that article before..
It jives alot with alota other reading I've done.. BUT it states the opposit about mixing Syn with Dino except of course for the Pure Syn (polyalkyleneglycol)..
Perhaps, when I've read soo many times that you should Not mix Syn with Dino the author meant the polyalkyleneglycol where I thought ALL Syn was meant..
As far as a little residual oil remaining after a Change-over goes I always read that it's ok..

Now this is new to me.. I never heard that ZDDP (Zinc dithiophosphates) ate away at Bronze.. I'm pretty sure there are bronze or at least copper components (bushings etc.) in our motors huh.. I'm curious about that one..
Can you explain it better..?

I do not stay as UP on any new info as you but that's because I only research this stuff for curiosity, not for practical purposes, cuz I still only use Dino and don't plan on ever switching..

Thanks for getting back Blues I always like to see your contributions..

[BluesFan]

The ZDDP and yellow metal thing has me confused too.

I know it eats worm gears.

I THINK we have it in our motors.

MAYBE, just MAYBE, it's a pressure thing too.

I need to do some research. textbooks, etc.

[BluesFan]

Hey Frisc, I can call you frisc, right?

Thanks for making me think.

I need to resolve this for own needs at work too.

[BluesFan]

MyT, I don't know if 10W40 falls under the looser guides that 20W50 does or not.

I'll try to check.

Frisco, the deal with bushings and ZDDP.

We still get attack, but after a short while, the surface passivates. Remember, we aren't really letting the shaft and bushing touch.

We see the effect neatly in an engine with a copper cooler in it. Change oil types and you see a copper increase at analysis, after a bit, it settles down.

With worm gears, you have sliding contacts, so the surface never gets to pasivate and the attack is noticable.

So, rubbing is bad.

[frisco-rigid]

Hey Blues,, I can call you Blues right

I woulda bet a dime to a doughnut (and you know how I love doughnuts) that you'd be back with more book learnin for us.. I knew I could count on you.. Good man..

I kinda understand what you say--- soo, the worm gear, if it's copper/bronze, will suffer (because of passivation OR because there is no passivation) with zinc (ZDDP) because of the rubbing..

Please describe and define Passivate..

Tell me where I am not understanding something-----
The Zinc (ZDDP) is, according to all I've read, a "last line of defense" against Metal to Metal contact.. Sooo, maybe you can see my on-going confusion..
Passivation,, or is it the lack of it has something to do with it,, correct.?????

Did you think this was going to be easy, HA.. Yeah Baby

[texan321]

Originally Posted by 48panshovel

Throw some bags on whatever you ride. Even a small fork bag should hold a quart of oil.

That would be my answer