TC vs EVO oil filters Harley Oil & Lubrication Discuss TC vs EVO oil filters in the Harley Tech & Harley How-to forums; Started in this tc wix thread I'm always up for a debate, to be educated, and/or learn something new. Which thank you BluesFan for helping in this. The cold facts ...

[Gas Man]

Started in this tc wix thread

I'm always up for a debate, to be educated, and/or learn something new. Which thank you BluesFan for helping in this.

The cold facts to the best of my knowledge... please correct or narrow down better if you know better. I'm new to TC motors

• TC motors use a 5 micron filter due to their oil misters. A particle bigger could possibly clog the mister.
  
• TC motors are a high pressure low volume oil system
  
• TC paper oil filters that are more restrictive causing less oil gallons per min usually contain a bypass and a anti-drain back valve.
  
• Evo motors only need 30 micron filtering
  
• Evo motors are a low pressure high volume oil system
  
• Evo paper oil filters don't have the anti-drain back valve and it can cause some damage if present (un sure what damage or how). They also don't have oil bypassing.

Ok I believe that covers the differences between the 2 motors, their oiling systems and which filter specs are on the motor.

I believe the idea is that if you put a TC filter on a EVO. At idle the evo wouldn't be able to push oil thru the TC filter restriction so the oil would simply bypass the oil filter = bad.

If you put a EVO filter on a TC. It simply doesn't filter enough for the oil misters.

Last year I remember HD doing something new with their oil filters. For years HD had a EVO filter and a TC filter due to the differences as I stated above.

Here's the EVO only filter as listed on the HD site. I picked a random EVO bike (fat boy).
EVO Filter Part #63805-80A


Stating:

Genuine H-D® Spin-On Oil Filters consist of cured resin impregnated paper which removes harmful foreign particles from the oil. Metal end caps and thermal setting adhesive provide positive seals, preventing bypassing of contaminant-laden oil. Made in the U.S.A

Then as I said there was a TC filter. However, I can no longer link that from HD cause they came out with their new filter (using my Ultra as an example)
SuperPremium Oil Filters Part #63731-99A

Stating:

Utilizing advances in synthetic media technology, the SuperPremium Oil Filters are TEST-CERTIFIED to provide filtration to retain dust, soot and other solid matter with low internal pressure relief and anti-drain back valves. Available in black or chrome.

This product is available in multiple variations. Be sure to look for the one that fits the specific model and year of your motorcycle.

Fits all '99-later Twin Cam and Evolution models and available as an upgrade for any motorcycle that requires Oil Filter P/N 63796-77A, 63805-80A, 63812-90 or 63813-90.

An upgrade for the EVO filter I listed above.

How can this be? What is being sacrificed?

• Is it allowing oil to bypass the filter via the "low internal pressure relief" when applied to a EVO and its low pressure idle? Causing said oil to not be filtered?
  
• Did they sacrifice the 5 micron filter rating to allow a EVO to push thru it with its low pressure oil system? I highly doubt this... cause that would death sentance the TC then.
  
• Does the new superior filter have a 5 micron rating?
  
• What about the anti-drain back valve in this new superior filter? Wouldn't that do damage (what ever damage that is) to the evo?

Then if that wasn't enough to twizzler your mind. I brought into play the K&P filters. A stainless steel cleanable & re-usable oil filter. K&P states (even updated to include 2009) that the TC & EVO run the same filter, part # S4.

K&P Techinical Highlights

States many things including items below relevant to this discussion:

• Superior ASTMF316 filtration performance
• 7 times the flow of comparable paper oil filters
• Magnetic Prefiltering
• Progressive rate bypass combined with high flow characteristics of the filter media avoids unfiltered oil bypassing the filter during cold startup and high rpm
• A one inch square of this material flows an incredible 1.9 gallons of oil per minute at only 1 PSI pump pressure.

• I wonder what the conversion of that ASTM316 filtration is into micron ratings.
  
• If it is lacking in micron rating is it made up with high flow capacity there for less likely to bypass and the magnetic prefiltering?
  
• Does it contain or need a device for the anti-drain back?

Then we can throw in the other popular name... K&N

K&N Oil Filters Generic Specs

The K&N 170 is for the EVO motors

Stating very little other than:

• Anti Drain Back Valve: No
• are ‘TUV’ product endorsed and ‘TUV’ factory production monitored. This means every K&N oil filter is equal to or will exceed all OEM specifications. Our filters contain a modern synthetic filter media, designed for ultimate flow with less pressure drop, yet engineered for outstanding filtration to meet or exceed all OEM specifications.
• Cross Referenced to HD #6379677A & 6380580A (the same EVO # I listed above)

The K&N 171 is for the TC motors

Stating very little here as well:

• Anti Drain Back Valve: Yes
• are ‘TUV’ product endorsed and ‘TUV’ factory production monitored. This means every K&N oil filter is equal to or will exceed all OEM specifications. Our filters contain a modern synthetic filter media, designed for ultimate flow with less pressure drop, yet engineered for outstanding filtration to meet or exceed all OEM specifications.
• Cross Referenced to HD 6373199, 6373199A (same HD super filter listed above), 6379677A, 6379899, 6379899A, 6380580A
  (the same EVO # I listed above)
• PSI Relief Valve: 14.65

So the 171 says you can then use it on both motors. The 171 is also the only one that states it has a PSI relief valve. What about micron ratings?


WOW... talk about brain twisting...

How is HD able to run one filter for both motors?
Same goes for K&P?
Why is it that K&N still lists 2 different oil filter part numbers but cross reference they connect like the HD super filter?

That means that all three companies list the same filter for both motors and list no micron ratings or micron rating different requirements for the motors.

Being I have K&P filters on both motors (same number as indicated above), I have emailed K&P to ask for some clarification on their S4 working on both motors. I will let you know what they reply with.

Thoughts?
Insights?
Knowledge?
Links?
Confusion?

[unclepsycho]

Just guessing here, but...

the EVO needs the anti-drain back valve because no oil, or very little oil belongs in the bottom of the crankcase, it belongs in the oil bag.

the TC has NO anti-drain back valve because the oil is stored in the bottom of the crankcase in the oil-pan, and has no seperate oil bag.

that's how I understand that part of it.

the rest is beyond me.

[Gas Man]

But it seems like its the TC's that have the anti drain back not the evo's.

This is something i really want to learn about. I may have to ask my mechanic at my dealership. print my facts collected above and go for a talk.

Plus waiting on my email reply from K&P.

Maybe BluesFan who has a self admitted "filter thing" can shed some light.

[unclepsycho]

Ooops, I gotta get more sleep before I read technicle stuff.
That does seem backwards. Hmmmmm
Hmmmmm

Hmmmmm

I think I will just stick with the HD filter made for each motor. I got 1 of each.

[Gas Man]

But with the "super filter" it would be one filter for either motor as stated above. Heck I don't even think you can even get a TC only filter. I think HD quit making them.

[unclepsycho]

I wonder what they have been selling me when I ask for a filter for my 2006 Ultra. to tell them apart, I get black for my Ultra, and chrome for my EVO.

that way when I get 2 or 3 at a time, and several weeks or months go by before the next oil change, and I go to the shelf to get one... I know which bike it is for.

[Gas Man]

Compare your part numbers to those one listed above or on the HD.com site.

[frisco-rigid]

I only have info from KN and my use of HD filters..

I have tried many times to get Micron ratings from KN by E mail, Phone calls to Techs and www. research,, they simply do not want us to know that info..

This is confusing cuz supposedly Evo & Twink filters are Not to be inter-changed for the very reasons you pointed out..
The Evo filter will Not filter fine enough for the Twink and the Twink filter might clog in the Evo return line path causing By-Pass too often..

Soo, why do all KN filters, but the 172C, state--- useable back to 1980.?
My skeptical side says they simply aren't aware or Just don't care and they will sell "it" to us if we want to buy it..

A wee more info from KN site..

173C ---- anti-drain valve, yes. Psi relief valve, 13.92 Lbs....... 1998 -- 1980
170 ----- anti-drain valve, no, Psi relief valve, none reported.....2003 -- 1980
171B---- anti-drain valve, yes, Psi relief valve, 14.65 Lbs..........2009 --1980
172C---- anti-drain valve, no, Psi relief valve, 13.63 Lbs...........1986 --1980

As far as damage occuring to an Evo with an anti-drain valve, none..
The valve prevents oil mixed with debris from draining back from the filter into the return line and into the oil pump upon shut-off..
Prob somebodys typo..
Opposite example--- the HD equivalent to the 172C sits under the trans. in the older Fxr with threads UP leaving No path for dirty oil to drain back..
With Evo's on back,, if we need one because of filter placement, we should have one

Yes some HD Evo filters do have anti-drain And By-pass valves, I use one..
BTW,, 14.65 lbs. by-pass for the twink 171B isn't all that low..!

OK, so how do I cope with this Mish-mash of crap/facts,,,, well, I simply do not think it's worth it to pursue "facts" that simply do not matter..
I just Do Not question it (hard to believe I said that huh) and I simply Do Not use filters meant for Twinkys in my motors, tooooo simple..

Oil and Filter threads can hurt the head huh, cuz usually there's tooo much BS and the "facts" are often twisted and almost Un-intelligeble..

[Gas Man]

I hear ya... maybe its the pain killers from oral surgery allowing my mind to twist up on the subject. Or just maybe its cause Bluesfan said something to me about the K&P. It rattled inside the head for a few days and bothered me... with my new TC motor and all.

Frisco... got any ideas on why they all list a filter that does both motors that you can even cross reference to each other?

[dwight]

I solved it all in my own mind. I used to use k&n but they are made in thailand. So now i use wix. I think they make better filters so i use them in all my vehicles.