Santee Frame? Harley Shocks & Harley Chassis Issues Discuss Santee Frame? in the Harley Tech & Harley How-to forums; Anybody,out there, build a bike using Custom Chrome's/ Santee D&D softail frame, w/ the 34degree neck, 3.75 inch stretch in downtubes and 2.75 inch stretch in the backbone? Trying to ...

Anybody,out there, build a bike using Custom Chrome's/ Santee D&D softail frame, w/ the 34degree neck, 3.75 inch stretch in downtubes and 2.75 inch stretch in the backbone? Trying to figure out proper length of frontend, be it a springer or glide and what degree of triple tree. 0 degree or what? I've seen a couple of different ways of calculating this and measuring but feel I would end up with only a semi-educated guesstimate. Don't want to spend the money and get it wrong. Please help if you can. In the 70's I put 2" & 4" extended tubes on stock framed bikes w/shorter rear shocks with mixed results, but I want to do this one right the first time. Thanx Tim L.

[frisco-rigid]

Hey T

Been along time since we've heard from you bud, hope all has been good..

I haven't used a Santee but measurements (the math) will be approx. the same from sickle to sickle, frame to frame..

My 35* neck with a 2" down-tube ext. and a 2" back-bone ext. runs very well with stock length FXST 24" forks..
Sickle sits almost level, only ever-so-slightly up in front..

I run an old-style FLH front end, they have a 3* DE-Rake for correct trail on the old stock 30* neck..
With my 5* neck it is a teensy bit heavy at say, under 3-4 mph,, you know, pushing around the garage or turning around very slowly etc,, but very stable on High-way..

As an experiment, some time ago, I ran a 0* (NO-Rake at all) front end (triple trees) on this same neck to decrease my trail..I tried diff length forks also..
The sickle became more stable at the VERY slow turn-around and parking lot speeds but less stable at High-way speeds..
You may have read that a raked (OUT) front end (triple trees) (3* to 5* to 7*) will correct the trail on very extreme raked frame necks thus better handling, but your 34* neck does not fall into that extreme catagory..
I'd stay with the old-style flh De-Raked trees but, your call there bud ..

Just the fact that you have almost 4" (2" longer than mine) of down-tube ext. means you gotta do that math.. The fact that your neck is 1* less than mine changes things a bit too..
Remember, when I went to the 0* rake trees it extended my forks out a couple inches and I needed about an 1.25" more to my forks to stay at previous level..

Now, about doing it right the first time,,,,,,Only you know how you want it to feel and look.. Right from word one you know you gotta do the math of longer down-tubes and 34* neck-- that puts you near my length of forks or maybe even 2" - 4" longer.. Remember,, you can use shorter damper tubes, lower damper tube springs and fork springs and spacers to virtually shorten forks but making them longer is well, not feasible..
Your call on the old-style (de-raked) or 0* or even raked trees..

Thanks for the reply, Frisco. I've used the Perse Rake calculator, the forking by franks and others. The rake & trail articles in AIM, some what threw me off. I set the frame up on blocks, about 5.5 " off the floor, stood a 19" wheel and tire in front of it and measured down to the axle hole. I came up with 31.5" to 32", not allowing for fork compression from the weight of the bike. Then I went to the Harley shop and measured a couple of Softail standards and a wide glide. They measured about 31- 32". Since the stock FXST has only a 32* neck, I was wondering if it had any rake in the trees. No one had an answer for that, so I guess it doesn't. THe '07 WG, had a different set up. w/longer forks than earlier models, so it seemed to be similar, other than being a Duo-glide rather than a Softail. From everything I can figure out, I would need about 3" over stock FXST tubes, to get it right. 6" would look better going down the road w/ the praying mantis effect, old style but not too safe around town. I think 4'' over would put the trail out around 6"- 7" and 2"over should put it around 4" of trail. They don't make 3" over tubes ( unless I get them custom cut) so I suppose 2" over tubes would be my best bet. If I went w/a springer I could probably go longer but glides are cheaper. So, it sounds like 2" over FXST and it make it a Down&Dirty lowrider. If it ain't right & I don't kill myself, I guess I could always sell the tubes and start over. What do you think? Does any of this sound right? Again,thanx for your input. W/all the parts I been accumalating over the past 5 years, I should be able to start another project,if I ever get the time to finish this one. Ha,ha. Tim L.

[frisco-rigid]

Hey Big T

Man, I dig-it when a guy gets in there and does some of the figuring and work himself.. There are waaay too many guys that just ask a general question and expect "us" to come up with gold.. Good Man T..

Ok, with the info you just supplied about what you measured and taking into account spring compression and that the stock FXST has 32* neck I think you're right-on to go with 2" over if you use old-style de-raked trees.. If for no other reason than OUR necks are similar but you hav 2" more down-tube length.. If it's a wee long you can shorten how I described with fluid, damper length, spring and spacer length etc.. Or just the opposit if it is a wee bit short..
With your neck rake I personally wouldn't use ZERO* trees..

Yeah baby, I'm excited, I wanna hear how this sickle developes..

Now, I do not think 2" of length one way or the other will change the trail as much as you indicate--- yes longer tubes can Virtually change trail but not that much.. BUT the type of Triple trees (fork clamps) will..

You're spittin in the wind if you expect ANY HD tech or even most front-end (triple trees) guys to know about what is dead right in front of them when it comes to a de-raked (negative rake) or neutral ( zero* rake) set of trees..

Did I say Right dead in front of them------ Just lean over a wee bit and look between the forks and the neck in that 6" area between the top and bottom fork clamp..
If the forks are dead in line PARALLEL with the neck it's ZERO* rake (neutral)..
If the forks are NOT parallel but actually pointing slightly BACK toward the sickle at the bottom of that 6" area then you got old-style FLH de-raked (negative)Trees.. It's very noticable,, about 1/4" closer at the bottom..

Thanx Frisco. Considering that, I think I'll go check out my Sportster and then go look at some of my buddys' bikes. One of my friends has about a 40 yearold collection, so I should be able to check out a vast collection. I travel so much, as a construction boilermaker, that it's hard to put a huge amount of continuious work time on this project,but someday it will get completed. This year, I hope. It's taken so long now,I was starting to worry that it might be a classic by the time I finish it, but hell, it's allready a combo of old and new parts, so it'll be a classic Evo anyway. Thanx for your input, I need all the encouragement I can get. Tim L,