RamJet Retainer for 5 Finger Clutch hub

[frisco-rigid]

Um, it sounds like you got to the same place but worded diff, I think...
I think I follow, the main thing is that you have about 1/8" play so you don't destroy the throw-out bearing...
I just don't understand why you dialed in that first 1/2" then adjusted it out with the cable adjustment... Once you take it out with the cable adjustment it's like it was never there in the first place... Sometimes I can be sooo dense...
Is the original problem a dragging clutch during ALL dis-engagements or while just at stops..?? And I'm really curious, what is that measurement between the pressure plate and the clutch releasing disc..?? OR have you solved that prob with some ramjet type part..??
I gotta say, I think part of your starting prob is that crappy E's 39.6mm venturi on a motor that came with a 34mm or less... Even with the slightly bigger cam it can't generate enough velocity thru that huge venturi to run well... The 54 and 52 I built back in the 70's ran great with a 36mm bendix... The E's kinda like putting a 750 double pumper on a 1500 Volkswagon... Just trying to assist...
I am very jazzed by your and motov8's pan projects, coool man...

Just adjusting similar to a 5 speed clutch adjustment, where you bottom the pushrod out, then back it off a 1/2 to 1 full turn, then lock it down. Then adjust the cable with the appropiate amount of freeplay. I have always understood the adjustment on the basket is for the hub to release and the adjustment on the cable has to do with where the lever catches as you let the clutch out.

Not really a starting problem now, starts cold on the fourth kick and then on the first kick when warm about 70% the rest of the time it take 2 or 3 kicks.

I have the springs adjusted at 1", they are older springs, so I ordered some new ones that I am going to add this weekend.

It does not full dis-engage when just pulling in the lever, however if I put it in gear, then it disengages and I can hold the bike without the brake. I have been told I am way to anal that everything has to be perfect I am obsesing a bit. The Ram Jet did take out alot of the basket cocking, but it still does a little. I am also going to double check the tranny allignment since it is an old tranny, without the bosses to run a bearing support.

I need to get some pics and post, where do you post those on this site?

Thanks

Well I adjusted the center clutch adjuster similar to on a 5 speed where you bottom it out on the pushrod with the cable loose and then back it off a 1/2 to a full turn then lock it down. I have always been told the adjuster in the center of the hub adjusts how much the plates separate and keeps the constant load off the throwout bearing. then the cable adjustment adjusts where the lever catches when letting it out.

I am running an old 4-Speed that does not have the bosses for a bearing support and not running an inner primary. The retainer got a lot of the wobble out of the hub, but still a little in there. I have old clutch springs which I adjusted to 1" between the release plate and the preasure plate. I got some new springs I am going to put on this weekend and also check alignment as you suggested. It does not full dis-engage when in netural but if I put it in gear it does, seems like it needs a little resistance to disengage.

Kicks on about the 4th kick cold and 1 kick when warm 70% of the time, sometimes more depending usually on me.

Thanks as always!

[frisco-rigid]

Hi Wide
On "non-mouse-trap" clutches, with old or new-style 4-sp, the push-rod only positions the clutch arm...
With mouse-trap you must actually perform your two adjustments, the push-rod adjusts the "end-play" for the throw-out bearing, (once the clutch arm position has been established) ... Then you adjust, quite independantly, the play at the handle...

But, with your eliminator you only need to position the clutch arm with the push-rod then adjust in whatever "play" you want, (for the handle and throw-out) with the cable adjuster, I think that's what you've done, right.??
I'm fairly familiar with new and old-style unsupported 4-spds, mouse-trap eliminator, eliminator long springs, mouse-trap short springs and of course mouse-traps... Part of my confusion is trying to converse one day at a time, sooo, this is what I would do if it were my sickle or you brought it to me...
With the belt off I would first be sure of alignment with a straight-edge, then be sure friction disc (rear of hub) and all plates and discs are clean and dry, then at least 1 1/16" at clutch releasing disc and pressure plate, and last, be sure no more than 3/16" (I prefer 1/8") TOTAL (combined) play in handle AND clutch arm/throw-out bearing... If there are still dis-engagement probs after all that, you will at least know that these things are not the source... The old worn springs are actually helping you, new stronger springs will amplify this prob, that's why you want at least 1 1/16" at the pressure plate... Your 1" measurement is tighter even than stock... Oh yeah, it has no choice but to dis-engage when put in gear, the hub can't go anywhere cuz the main shaft is now captured by the tranny gears... BTW, anal is good, that way no prob can kick yer ass, I'm the same way...

Frisco,

Ok, I guess I was making a bad assumpstion on the adjustment in the center of the Clutch hub. I am going to put the red springs on today, they say heavy duty but they are much weaker than the ones I have on now. The ones I have now ssem to be the Barnett Heavey Duty and they are fatter and shorter than the red ones. I will adjust those to 1 1/16" between the preasure plate and the releasing disk. I took everything off and check alignment as you suggested, checking all the things you mentioned. Everything looks dead-on so far. It may be that I have just been adjusting it wrong this whole time.

I will let you know the outcome. Thanks again, oh and do you sleep? seems like all your posts are in the wee hours of the morning. I am the same problem by the way.

[frisco-rigid]

Hmmm, interesting about the old springs...
Where did you get them.?
The old-style mouse-trap springs are shorter and slightly stiffer than the "eliminator " springs and will not work as well with the eliminator, hey, could be on to something now...
If all the other things are good, then you are well on the way to knowing if you're going to need more "ramjet" type band-aids or not...
Now, that 1 1/16" measurement is a good starting point, you may feel the need to go in a notch or two or even out another notch or two... As long as you get no slippage while kick-starting you might as well keep your clutch pull as "easy" as you can... I don't think you have to worry about slippage while screwing it on cuz, well, you know, it's only 74"...
I'm slightly over 1 1/16" on the 120" and get no slippage what-so ever... Fingers crossed...
Hey, I just remembered something... When I used that "big fix" for a time, it came with a large teflon retainer that kinda acted like a Ramjet by pressing up agin the clutch shell to keep the long roller bearings in, do you have it and use it..??
I usually don't get to the comp till about 10PM my time,,,Arizona...

Frisco, the old springs I had came with an old 4-spd and clutch, not really sure who made or intended use. This is kinda hit and miss for me, some good old bro's have been helping, but they have a hard time recalling the specifics. I am running the teflon washer I guess you would call it.

Messing with one of my other rides as well today, I have the Pan ready to go, but getting ready to go for a ride. Too damn nice to sit in the garage.

I will let you know the outcome tomorrow. I am in Salt Lake, so not too far down the road.

Well, adjusted to 1 1/16" between the preasure plate and the release plate. 1/8" of free play at the level. Still some rocking of the clutch basket. Worked for a little bit, then was back. Checked alignement before and it seems on, but going to triple check and see. I think that iis probably my problem. It is slowly driving me insane. The single side adjustment on the tranny plate does not help hold it square, so got to figure something out to make sure the alignment hold. To be continued...

[frisco-rigid]

Yes, I remember that tranny plate adjuster, forward and back...
But you gotta square up the trans itself while the nuts are loose, I remember there's some play in the slots the case studs set in...
Get the belt tension and rear chain adjustment then try to align while not changing those adjustments,,, jeeeeze, I don't envy you... And I'd be very suspicious of that 3" belt...
Soo, you're getting what seems to be an abnormal amount of shell rocking even with the Big Fix, hmmm... Or do you mean just sliding outward..?? And, it's still preventing a smooth shift (dragging clutch??)...??
Over the years I remember that only one prob ever kicked my ass and it was soooo long ago I don't remember what it was... I will stay with this as long as you do...

Frisco,

Right now when the bike is running, if I pull in the clutch, the basket slide out with the preasure plate and they both remain spinning. When I put it into gear, it then fully disengages and the preasure plate stops spining. With the bike shut off, I can put it in gear and pull in the clutch and there is very little drag. When i had everythign aligned, it would fully disengage, but once I go for a short ride it is back. It shifts ok, but there is a bit of drag. Unfortunately I have to travel for the next two weeks so it will go unsolved until I return after the first. Aligning everything is a real pain and time consuming. I am sure the 3" belt is just amplifing everything because of the leverage and such. I will keep you in the loop, I do not give up too easily.

Thanks for all your help.