Take Back America - Harley Forum

botzman · #1 08-12-2009, 09:13 PM

YouTube - We The People Stimulus Package

CrossBonesRick · #2 08-12-2009, 09:25 PM

I agree with just about everything this guy covers. The only thing I do not agree with is the abolishment of the electorial college. There is a reason for it and it is all that will give conservitives a chance to ever win back the presidency again. Without it only 3 or 4 states will decide every presidential election we have. They would be the states with the largest voter reperesentation and that would make the rest of the country powerless and without a voice. Now that would be taxation without representation.

Twinpeaks · #3 08-13-2009, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrossBonesRick

I agree with just about everything this guy covers. The only thing I do not agree with is the abolishment of the electorial college. There is a reason for it and it is all that will give conservitives a chance to ever win back the presidency again. Without it only 3 or 4 states will decide every presidential election we have. They would be the states with the largest voter reperesentation and that would make the rest of the country powerless and without a voice. Now that would be taxation without representation.

The electoral college was initiated back in the days of the pony express as a way of expediting voting results in a time with "zero technology". The "electorals" would travel and meet with the results from their respective states. It was simplified to electoral votes.
There is no need in today's world and should absolutely be decided by popular vote. I see no advantage/disadvantage to either side. In the existing system a handful of states have the clout to turn an election and that won't really change with the popular vote.

CrossBonesRick · #4 08-13-2009, 02:05 PM

If we decided by the popular vote then we would have gotten Al Gore in 2000.

If we allow popular vote New York, California and the other two most popular states would decide who the president will be and this would take away the voices of the rest of the country.

It was only in the 1800s that the term "electorial college" was used, but it was referenced in the constitution from the start. Example:

Article II, Section 1, Clause 2 of the Constitution states:

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

Article II, Section 1, Clause 4 of the Constitution states:

The Congress may determine the Time of choosing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.

Article II, Section 1, Clause 3 of the Constitution provided for the original fashion by which the President and Vice President were to be chosen by the electors. Unlike the present system, each elector voted for two people for President, rather than one vote for President and one vote for Vice President. To become President, a candidate had to have more votes than any other and must have received votes from a majority of the electors. After the choosing of the President, the person with the most electoral votes among the remaining candidates would become the Vice President. If no one received a majority of the votes, the decision would be made by the House of Representatives.

The design of the Electoral College was based upon several assumptions and anticipations of the Framers of the Constitution:

1. Each state would employ the district system of allocating electors.
2. Each presidential elector would exercise independent judgment when voting.
3. Candidates would not pair together on the same ticket with assumed placements toward each office of President and Vice President.
4. The system as designed would rarely produce a winner, thus sending the election to Congress.[9]

On these facts, scholars have described the intended role of the Electoral College as simply a body that would nominate candidates from which the Congress would then select a President and Vice President.[10]

Under the original plan for the Electoral College, each state government was free to have its own plan for selecting its electors. Several different methods emerged and are described at length below.

No sir, I believe that the founding fathers intended for the electorial college to make sure that the power to elect our president didn't rest in the hands of a few states but gave equal power to the whole country. To do away with it would make the voices of many fly over states mute.

CrossBonesRick · #5 08-13-2009, 02:13 PM

Also please read www.fec.gov/pdf/eleccoll.pdf

frisco-rigid · #6 08-13-2009, 03:25 PM

Good research Cross

I also do not agree with the Electoral College reference in the video..

I have Not been able to find if the Real Thomas Paine was in favor of the EC or not..

There are some that say the 2nd Amendment has Out-Lived it's usefulness too..

It is a very good thing that it takes a Constitutional Amendment to get rid of a Constitutional Amendment..

But,,, if we could just quickly do something about that pesky 19th Amendment,, hmmmmm..

Rocky · #7 08-14-2009, 03:30 AM

I personally am waiting for the Repulicans/Independents to make the Impeachment motion against the President for jepordizing our National Security due to putting our Nation so far into debt it will be impossible to ever recover.

Where are the Congressmen/ladies with the backbone to stand up to this administration?

CrossBonesRick · #8 08-14-2009, 01:36 PM

Thanks Frisco. I am a History buff and love to discuss any chance I get. I shudder every time someone talks about doing away with the EC and going with the popular vote. Notice that is what the liberals have been trying to do since the election of Bush in 2000. They still scream that the election was stolen. If one were to look at that election they would see it wasn't Bush who stole it, but Gore to tried to steal it. Every recount done by any news agency proves that.

Rocky. I think the Republicans are just giving Omabatron the rope he will use to hang himself and the rest of the libs. Every time he opens his mouth these days he drops in popularity.

I just hope that the Cap and Trade along with the Health bill fail to pass. If the Health bill becomes law I know I will be out of a job along with everyone who works for a health insurance provider. If you doubt that just check out page 16 of the bill being debated. It states that once the bill becomes law all health insurance providers can not sight up any new policy holders, thus making it impossible for them to continue to do business. So just think of how many thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people that will put out of work. Pretty soon, with all the jobs going away and no new ones being created we will all be on the government dole.

Twinpeaks · #9 08-14-2009, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocky

I personally am waiting for the Repulicans/Independents to make the Impeachment motion against the President for jepordizing our National Security due to putting our Nation so far into debt it will be impossible to ever recover.

Where are the Congressmen/ladies with the backbone to stand up to this administration?

I thought Bush retired!?

CrossBonesRick · #10 08-19-2009, 02:51 PM

Bush isn't the president any longer, I think Rocky means to impeach the guy in office who is spending like a drunk dictator. I'm all for it. Kick him back to Kenya.